I've had a 1990 Honda Civic Hatchback for the past two years, and while it's a bit high in mileage (185k), I've maintained it well, and it's never given me any problems starting and going from point A to B. Hovever, I've decided to take the step up in performance and picked up a 98 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (AWD + turbo = fun ). I went to Hawaii for two weeks, and came back ready to sell my Civic to a friend. For the past two weeks it's been sitting in the garage unused.

I turn the key and hear an unnatural, unholy, and just-plain-awful sound : http://www.geocities.com/swankdaddie/badstart.wav (right-click and choose Save As...)

The engine is turning over, but it's not kicking up and starting. The car worked just fine when I parked it, and doesn't start at all now that I'm back from vacation. Here's what I've checked:

- The battery is well charged.

- The starter is less than 5k miles old, and is still working great.

- The fuel pump is working fine, and you can smell the fuel in the intake after running it a few times

- All four spark plug leads are sparking.

- The plugs are one month old, gapped correctly, and in perfect condition. They have worked fine in the past month.

- The distributor and rotor were worn, but I just replaced them this evening and there was no change in the problem.

- The spark plug cables are fine.

- The lifters and camshaft move when the engine is being cranked, so the timing belt isn't broken.

- The timing belt is 6k miles old, and was installed by Firestone.

- Exhaust air comes out the exhaust pipe when the engine is cranked.

- The intake is fine.


What else can I check before I throw up my hands and tow the car to the dealer and pay them a fortune to fix it?

If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them Thx

 

Have you checked your main relay...Also checked your engine grounds ? I had that same sound in my old sohc and it was a bad tranny ground.

 

Take out one of your spark plugs and put it on something metal, and have someone try to start the car. This way you can see if its really sparking or not.
If its sparking, air is getting in, and fuel, i dont know what to tell ya.

 

check all your grounds it may sound stupid to you that a ground cant help your problem but it will. Roll your car outside the garage and check all grounds. Roll windows down to equal the temp in and out of the car then try and start. If it does then your main relay is shot.....

Does it always do that crank over or sometimes does it just click.


Do you get any codes on your ecu????? PULL UP CARPET UNDER PASSENGER FOOTWELL (sorry caps) and then look through window while you crank your car and count how many flashes. None means no codes = no problems.

Good luck. Let us know so we can further diognose.

The starting sound sounds good.


Are you sure your plugs are all puged in and tight and the coil is attached????

 

Did you turn the key?

 

if all else fails.....check your timing belt.....my timing belt slipped (luckily nothing bent) and it wouldnt start....this happend after i changed my cap and rotor and i wsa thinkin...wtf??

 

The engine ground is fine, I just checked that with an ohmmeter. Is there a seperate ground for the tranny? I didn't see one after a brief glance.

The main relay is apparently coated with a bunch of yellow goop, so I'll have to look into that tomorrow after work

I checked all the wires and they all spark, but I haven't pulled the plugs individually and checked them for spark yet, so I'll try that as well.

The engine always cranks over (at least the starter and battery are strong ).

I checked the ECU light, but there weren't any codes. I remembered that light as it was quite useful when my O2 sensor went bad

There's no easy way to check the timing belt, is there? If I have to open all that stuff up, I think I'd rather have a mechanic do it, as I'm afraid I might screw something up bad

Oh, yeah, I turned the key


Btw, thx a lot for the help, this is good stuff.


[Modified by CornerHard, 8:55 AM 6/10/2002]

 

T-belt is easy enough. Just take the top timing cover off. I can't help but wonder if that is where the problem occured.

Take the timing cover off by lifting the valve cover slightly (enough to get the timing cover out from underneith it) and taking the two bolts out of the timing belt cover. The up on the cam gear should be up when the crank pulley's TDC mark is up.

I'm thinking the main relay is out of the question if you're getting fuel. That's pretty much what it does.

If you're getting fuel to the motor and spark, then it should start at least for a second no matter what other sensors are bad (even the crank or cam pos sensor usually although that could cause it not to fire). I'm betting on timing... especially since you let a firestone change it Never trust those places. Go with Honda or do it your self.... we'll all help you.

 

wow I think you've done everything already. I've encounter this to my EF before. 1st. make sure that the cable connected to the valve cover to the front off radiator bracket is connected not unless you re-route it somewhere else. 2nd this happen to my friends 92 hatch it's the ignition module inside the distributor cap (black color where the cap pin coil is center through. It's easy to replace just make sure you remember which wire you're taking it from, recommended to borrow someone elses first. goodluck

another thing .. I didn't read all of your post, mine ended up doing the same thing when I came back from my trip and I have to re-charge my battery to the max and crnk it like ten times and broom!!!


[Modified by whagkangmakulet, 6:26 PM 6/10/2002]

 

I agree with whagkangmakulet, check the ignition module, you can take it out and take it to autozone. They will cehck it for you. If its bad its 60 bucks for a new one. Anyway, I dont htink your timing belt can skip from sitting there......

 

Spray some starter fluid in there. I just listened to the wav, and my car was doing that. We did a lot fo thigns to get it to work, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, cam timing, ignition timing, ECU.

You might try another ECU in there. That could help. Maybe some how your ECU went bad from sitting. I dont know though. I am just guessing... Trying to give you some ideas..

 

My only thinking on the T-Belt is if it was sitting for a long time and was prone to or about to slip anyhow, it would slip when he tried to start it. If you've ever taken a T-Belt off of a car that has been sitting for a long time they're always shaped just like the way they were stretched around the pulleys. Its just a thought.

 

just sold a suburu that did the same. come to find out after $400 in parts that the timing belts(2) broke and well, it bent the dern valves. your timing belts do not sound old enough though. you may not be getting fuel in the rail? check all wiring in starting circuit. if you replaced the distributor, did you get it realigned properly? assuming you did the cap & rotor with the distrubutor i'm clueless. any reason there might be moisture in starting components? timing belts are easy just apain in the ***


[Modified by mr. carpenter, 11:04 PM 6/10/2002]

 

Okay, time for an update.

The first thing I did tonight was check the primary and secondary resistance on the ignition coil. Both were perfect according to the specs in my manual, so I put the distributor back on and went to check the actual spark plugs for spark.

I take the cables off to look at the cylinders (the part where the wires plug into the plugs, not the actual combustion chamber) before pulling the plugs, and notice that the third cylinder is a lot dirtier than the others, crusted with some fuel, apparently. Hmm. Also the wire has also slid around a bit in the boot, so it doesn't plug in properly. However, this is a recent development, as the wire fit just fine when my car started having problems.

I pull the plugs one by one, plug them into the appropriate wire, ground them to the engine block, and have my roommate crank the engine. They all spark just fine. Okay, so it seems there's no electrical problems. The spark plug in the third cylinder also had a decent amount of grit in the threads that the others didn't have. Is it possible this prevented a complete seal and allowed some fuel to leak up?

Each of the plugs is wet with fuel as I pull it, so I suppose the injectors are not the problem. Just for kicks, I cover the third cylinder with my hand while the plug is out, and have my roommate crank the engine. I make a small crack in my fingers and peek down to see if I can watch the piston move. He cranks it and -Whoosh- I get a face full of gas fumes. Okay, so that wasn't the brightest idea, but at least the cylinder appears to have a decent amount of compression and gas.

So, it looks like the timing belt is the next thing to check. Is there anything I need to worry about in lifting up the valve cover so I can get the upper timing belt cover off? Are there any gaskets or anything I'll need to replace?


Thx again

 

1). Remove bolts from upper timing cover. Sometimes this is a bitch because the part that they thread in to wants to crack (it is set in plastic) so you may have to get crafty with the vice grips. Its really nothing to sweat though. We're talking about a 2 minute setback at the most.

2). Remove the four bolts from the vavle cover. Remove the spark plug wires from the valve cover. Lift the valve cover up about 1/4 of an inch or less and pull the timing cover so its not under the lip on the valve cover.

3). Pull the timing cover up and off.

As for the seals and stuff, just make sure the valve cover gasket stays in the groove of the valve cover once you put it back down.

If you're able to change oil, change a tire, and change you plugs, you're more than able to remove the valve cover. Its really no big deal at all. You'll see.


[Modified by therealciviczc, 3:08 PM 6/11/2002]

 

your .wav link has been '"over visited" so I can't hear it. If it's an ugly clicking noise, it could very well be either you battery or a bad (corroded) lead on either battery terminal.
Your batt. might show good voltage just sitting there, but under load, may have an internal short.
If you've got that fluffy whitish/bluish growth on either batt terminal, chances are that it "grew" inbetween the batt. terminal and the batt. lead.
Also, it's possible that your starter solenoid contacts have plain worn out. You don't have to get a new starter, the solenoid contacts are replaceable for about $15-20 from Honda.

Like I said above, I can't hear the .wav because of geoshitties. So, if I'm way off, ignore all that...

 

Keep in mind though that the pistons are going up and down and he's getting spark, so it sounds like the starter must be engaging.

 

If you can't get to the file, here's another on my non-free web page (shoulda done this is the first place ) - just right-click and choose save as: http://home.attbi.com/~dcarlton16/badstart.wav

The engine is turning over, there's no corrosion on the battery, and the headlights and stereo work fine.

Time to head off to work...

 

If you can't get to the file, here's another on my non-free web page (shoulda done this is the first place ) - just right-click and choose save as: http://home.attbi.com/~dcarlton16/badstart.wav

The engine is turning over, there's no corrosion on the battery, and the headlights and stereo work fine.

Time to head off to work...

 

Well, last night the timing belt cover came off, and the timing belt still looks new
(it was replaced in January, so I would expect it to be good condition). No missing
or bent teeth, and no signs of skip. I turned the crank pulley by hand, and the red
TDC mark was up exactly when the "UP" mark on the cam gear was up, so the timing
looks good.

After everything got put back together, I tried cranking it again to see what would
happen and noticed that after about 5 sec with the starter turned, the engine starts
to sputter. Since I have spark, air, compression, and timing, I'm thinking this is
sign that I may have some water condesation in the fuel tank from the car sitting
around too long. I thought the fuel was fine, because the plugs are wet and smell
like fuel, but water from the fuel tank would smell the same way. I'll put some
fuel cleaner (and maybe some starter stuff) and 92 octane from the Eclipse in there
tonight, and see if I can get it going.

 

I dumped some de-moisturizer in the fuel tank, sprayed some starter fluid in the throttle body, cranked the engine a bunch, and now it works. Looks like it was water condensation in the fuel tank after all.

Thanks for the help everyone

 

can anyone tell me where the tranny ground is on the 1990 civic dl? how many grounds does this car have and where are they?
thanks
greghaney

 

how many grounds does 1990 civic dl have and where is tranny ground supposed to be attached.
thanks
greg haney

 

Well it seems like you got the car fired up...congrats. I just read your post and I hate to tell you did alot of work just because your piston rings dried up....so technically you lost compression...no compression no power...lol...I ran in to this problem before...You have to think about the fact that it ran when you parked it and now it dosen't start. So it must be something simple. Never get too involved if you can help it.

 

hey i have the same problem...I was just driving earlier today got home and parked about an hour later i try to star my car and it isn't turning on...could it be the same problem???