UPDATED: PLEASE SEE PAGE 2

Well the story goes:

I gave the keys of my car to my brother because i got a brand new set of tires and he said he would take em to his shop and put em on for free. i had on 195 55 15 and i put on a set of falken 195 50 15 so they're a little thinner.

upon receiving my car, the car feels completely diffrent with the steering! it feels very very loose, almost as if the power steering was juiced up, the wheel in other words is very sensitive! but the major problem is when i turn the wheel to make a turn, the back end feels like it's "drifting", almost as if the sway bars were taken out of my car. the back end feels like it drifts after a wide turn, but the tires stay on the ground.

i asked my brother 100% wtf he did to my car since his shop is about 20 miles away. i figured he drove it like a dick and snapped something, but he insists nothing happened when he drove it. i just find it weird this happened with just a new set of tires

so i brought it to a local shop around me to have a 4 wheel alignment. STILLLLL....same problem.....what should i check? / look for?

any help is appreciated...



Modified by gsr dood at 12:24 PM 7/9/2007

 

Well when I bought new azenises a few years ago, I went hard around a corner and the back end actually did come out into a full drift and the car went into a ditch, but I think my tires were still a little too new to be going that hard around a corner and that's why my back tires didn't stick, but it doesn't sound like thats what you are refering to.

 

First and foremost, check tire pressures.

The new tires are not thinner, but the height has decreased a bit. With the smaller tires, you will notice more responsive steering, which you mentioned and the car will probably feel a bit faster.

As far as the unstable rear end, not sure what is causing that problem. Do you have the specs from the alignment shop?

 

yes ill post the sheet up

 

ignore the camber factory specs, the car is lowered

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsr dood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ignore the camber factory specs, the car is lowered</TD></TR></TABLE>

you pretty much just said it! Get a camber kit! What Falken's did you get? I got the falken azenis and I had the same thing happen to me, im not sure how low your car is but mine WAS dumped, then I raised it up quite a bit and put a camber kit on. Now its much better in the corners!! Donno just try it or go buy different tires

 

you got to break them tires in too. there is oil on it from where it was molded also. go read tirerack since they have an article on it.

 

Wait about a month to let the tires get broken in.

 

the tires arent sliding thought, it seems to be a suspesion related issue. the rear just sways to much around turns, its really weird. what keeps the back wheels stifff?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsr dood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ignore the camber factory specs, the car is lowered</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd start with the camber.
On a street car, set your cambers to -1 up front and 0 in back. Lower your tire pressures to about 33-34psi as well and see how that feels to you.

 

Did you put on FOUR new tires, or just TWO? If just two, differences in traction could easily account for undesirable handling.

Also, as mentioned above, newer tires may not grip as well, till you drive a few hundred miles and wear off the mold release lubricant. Or, if your new tires have lower performance than your old, that could account for the same feeling.

I would never put old-Civic-sized tires on an Integra, either, like you're doing, but for a whole bunch of other reasons - the fact that the tires are undersized shouldn't cause handling problems.

 

my rear tires are 195/55R15 and my front tires are 205/55 R15 and i love it now. i gain a bit more oversteer rather than understeer and my power steering feels like it was down tuned a bit... as in i mean, it feels a bit more stiffer and i like it. it feels like im more in control rather than the power steering itself, idont like my power steering loose.

 

did you check tire pressure? its a common thing to be overlooked.

 

Look at the left rear toe. It's way out of spec.

 

What kind of Falkens did you buy? The cheap 512s? I have both Azenis and 512, and the 512s make the car feel very sloppy, almost scary at high speeds. The car feels much more unstable compared to Azenis.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TypeR76 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look at the left rear toe. It's way out of spec.</TD></TR></TABLE>

x2 WAY out of spec. I suspect that is the problem. Not sure how they messed it up that bad. Take it back and have it done over. Right rear is out of spec too.

Talk to the tech. If that's the best they can get it, you may have something bent.

 

the toe should be within factory specs even with the car lowered? psi in all 4 tires are 35. all 4 brand new....this is just sooo weird, its not the tires im concerned about, its the suspension swaying, would the toe cause this?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsr dood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the toe should be within factory specs even with the car lowered? psi in all 4 tires are 35. all 4 brand new....this is just sooo weird, its not the tires im concerned about, its the suspension swaying, would the toe cause this?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes you can try to get the rear toe as close to stock spec as possible. The feeling of looseness may just be amplified by the shorter sidewalls of a symptom that you may have previously had.

From what I see above it doesn't look like they did a true 4 wheel alignment, just looks like they zeroed the Front Toe. But it's possible they can't if the car is dumped and you don't have camber kits. All of your other settings look similar to exactly the same from before your alignment to after. Just them zeroing the Toe up front may have moved the front settings for the left front camber that tiny bit:



Your left rear Toe is toed in so drastically that Absolutely you could feel it. Your rear Left or Drivers Rear tire is actually pointing to the right by almost a full degree which is Huge.

If the car is lowered as you say and you don't have camber kits it is likely that the guys doing the alignment cannot set the camber and toe properly let alone close to stock specs because they just don't have the ability to change the settings.

Get camber kits, get it corner weighted, take it back and get a full alignment again.

While it takes maybe 200 miles for the tire mold release compound to wear off, it shouldn't feel as if the rear of the car is super loose from that alone unless on wet roads. I'd guess between the shorter sidewalls, possibly the mold release compound And the crazy toed in rear, that's where you're getting the majority of your feeling from.

 

thanks a lot for taking the time to help me! im goin bck monday and im going to question him about the rear toe and why he made it worse., it seems as though the toe was brought further away from factory specs on the left rear

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsr dood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks a lot for taking the time to help me! im goin bck monday and im going to question him about the rear toe and why he made it worse., it seems as though the toe was brought further away from factory specs on the left rear </TD></TR></TABLE>

You're misunderstanding. You're total toe in/out for the rear is virtually the same before and after they adjusted or didn't adjust the car.

The most important things are A) are you running an aftermarket suspension or even just lowering springs? & B) do you have aftermarket camber kits installed?

A) because lowering your car will increase Negative Camber and + - Camber or the adjustability of Camber can directly effect Toe

B) because if you don't have a way to adjust for Camber you may not have the range of ability to adjust Toe properly.

So I'm not saying they didn't do anything. From the looks of the rear they didn't adjust it much if at all. But like I said they may not have the ability depending on just how your car is set up.

Clear? Not Clear?

 

i got you. thanks alot! i guess ill just say i wasted 70$ on an alignment and get a camber kit and go back and pay another 70 my fault

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsr dood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i got you. thanks alot! i guess ill just say i wasted 70$ on an alignment and get a camber kit and go back and pay another 70 my fault</TD></TR></TABLE>

get it corner weighted after you install the camber kits and before you get the alignment again.

 

Certainly possible that being dumped can prevent proper toe setting. However, that is just soooo wrong, I don't believe it. Seems like they did not set the rear toe. What suspension do you have? Is it so dunked the tires are under the metal??

Any shop worth their salt would tell you if they could not get it close, as the tech would have to struggle with it a lot. If it is really that low, I'd raise it up before getting a camber kit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ill &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Certainly possible that being dumped can prevent proper toe setting. However, that is just soooo wrong, I don't believe it. Seems like they did not set the rear toe. What suspension do you have? Is it so dunked the tires are under the metal??

Any shop worth their salt would tell you if they could not get it close, as the tech would have to struggle with it a lot. If it is really that low, I'd raise it up before getting a camber kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

its lowered on eibach gc's, the top of the tires sit flush with the qp, theres no gap and the tires arent tucked at all. so its technically not "dumped". i'd say its a good 2" drop. i dont think i should raise it all because i know other cars that ae lower and dont have this problem. it seems they didnt even try and fix the toe, i checked the compensator arms and they are in the middle of the adjustments, which means they can still be set for toe, in other words there is still play for posititive or neg toe, so i think th shop got lazy im going there monday and asking

 

See the problem was there even BEFORE the alignment... soo I think there is something very weird and shady about it and the only way to find out is to terrorize your brother to hell and tell you the whole truth...