I upgraded my B16 allmotor and installed a GT2871R .60/.86 with 7.5psi.
I need a help from you, because my car made very low dyno number, NA:163whp FI: 200whp. I supose that could be the s2s2 NA cams that hurts my VTEC graph, I tried every camgear setting from+4 +4 to -4 -4.
I need sugestions to gain more power without raising the pressure, I was expecting 240whp-260whp with my setup like my friend with everything stock block with a turbocharger.

NA Setup

B16a stock block
Shaved Head with 11:1 CR
Cometic Gasket Head
Skunk2 Stage2 Allmotor cams
Skunk2 Stage2 Springs/Retainers
AEM Camgears +2 -1
AEBS Intake Manifold
800cc Venon Fuel Injectors
High flow fuel rail, filter and pump
MSD Blaster SS and Ik22 Iridium Sparks
Stage3 Cerami Clutch
Ligtweight Flywhell
Inoovate LC-1, Ostrich, Crome Pro Tunning
SMSP 4x2x1 style Header

Turbo:
1.75pol pipe equal lenght turbo manifold
GT2871R @ 7.5psi no intercooler
3'' Downpipe
2.5'' exhaust with 3 muflers
HKS EVC IV Boost controler
Gredy Type RS BOV
Camgears -2 +4

Dyno:
First Run is NA and Second is Turbo, all tunned near AFR:12
http://img184.imageshack.us/im...8.jpg


Modified by gorpobr at 3:50 AM 6/10/2007


Modified by gorpobr at 2:17 PM 6/20/2007


Modified by gorpobr at 12:56 AM 6/25/2007

 

Might want to look into an intercooler

 

I think 3 things that could be the problem:

- S2S2 cams, maybe put the stock B16 cams to test, but before VTEC the car pulls harder than my friend stock

- Intercooler, but at this low boost and on a dyno test?

- GT2871R, larger for the B16a and/or low boost for its efficiency point, but it spools fast and stronger than my friend, like you could saw in dyno

More sugestions?

 

You have an 11:1 compression turbo engine with no intercooler. That's not exactly what i'd call a good combination. Put some smaller cams in it and an intercooler and i think you'll find what you're looking for.

 

NA cams = not good for a boosted application (or that is from what i have come to understand. i think you end up with too much overlap.)

if someone can confirm this that would be great.

also your compression ratio of 11:1 seems to be a tad bit high to safely run a boosted setup.

 

I forgot to say that I live in Brazil and I use regular Ethanol found on every gas station.
Ethanol is very good fuel that allows high compression and the combustion lowers the chmabers temperature.
During Dyno i saw the datalog and the top air temperature was 183F at the end of gear, this is acceptable?

 

183 is hot, I would definitely pick up an intercooler. Also, you said a/f was around 12:1, doesn't ethanol require a much richer mixture?

 

93
Well, the dyno is wrong for one thing, hp/torque need to cross at 5252 and only there. But I see that you are dissatisfied with the gain from the turbo. Whats with the 3 mufflers? Remove the exhaust post o2 and take it for a spin. If it feels like you added a shot of nitrous, look into a 3' exhaust with a better muffler arrangement. Many people have gotten away with big cam(s) in a turbo app. And you're much better off with high comp and big cams than low comp/big cams so thats working to your advantage. Your iat's are quite high though, obviously an intercooler or liquid injection would help a good deal. As for the 12 afr, if the meter is set up for petrol, this would be okay as they measure lambda. Besta' luck.
93 93/93


Modified by poop II at 3:52 AM 6/10/2007

 

I would say sell your cams, and with the money you gain, pick up some GSR cams which are cheap and the lobes are perfect for turbo. Then with the leftover cash, save a little money and get an intercooler. It will help!

Also, I personally feel that an Intake Mani is a bit overkill if your not boosting some serious PSI. That may actually inhibit you from getting a stronger spool b/c 7.5 psi is not a lot of pressure, and may hurt your #'s a little. I bet if you sell the IM, but the stock b16 mani (that's what I run.) you would have more money for an intercooler and still have money left for doing more for your build!

Sometimes "less is really more.

 

183 degrees IAT!!!! holy **** im suprised u didnt detonate that thing already.

on all the turbo cars i tuned, the IAT range from 80*F to a max of like 120*. u def. need an intercooler and alot better tune.

 

AFR 12 is for lambda, so doesn´t matter the fuel we are measuring.

At the end of the gear at a dyno session or even at street after a rush, what temperature you guys get with an intercooler?

I will test the stock B16a cams just to see if I get good gains, if not, I put back the S2S2 back, test remove all the mufflers and finnally modify my kit and put the intercooler. This is the easiest and cheapiest way to gain HPs, I will try to update this post with this modifications.

 

I expect 220whp to 240whp, so tonight I will install the OEM B16a camshaft and tune again to see the difference between a NA cam and OEM cam in a FI car, and post the impressions after tune it again

I bought a big Intercooler kit (Overall Size: 29"x11"x3"
) from ETD Motors at ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...67739

It will take a month to deliver in Brazil, after this I can update again this topic.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gorpobr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I expect 220whp to 240whp, so tonight I will install the OEM B16a camshaft and tune again to see the difference between a NA cam and OEM cam in a FI car, and post the impressions after tune it again

I bought a big Intercooler kit (Overall Size: 29"x11"x3"
) from ETD Motors at ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...67739

It will take a month to deliver in Brazil, after this I can update again this topic.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sup bro, long time no talk--congrats on the intercooler, that should definitely help you put some better numbers down.

When I re-read the thread, I also noticed your exhaust! 3 mufflers?? 2.5 inch exhaust?? That may have a lot to do with your low numbers too. Boosted cars really need some free flowing exhaust, and when it's restricted, you lose a lot of power.

Like Poop II said, try talking off the exhaust after the 02, and running it. If there's a big difference, then I suggest finding more free flowing 3inch exhaust. Can't wait to see the updates!

 

Thanks, I can't wait for the intercooler.

There is some updates about this.

I talked with an exhaust performance company. They said that my 3 mufflers are free flow and my 2.5 pipe is not bad for a 1.6L with only 7psi of boost. They can do the upgrade for the 3'' exhaust with one larger muffler at the end, but they don't expect great gains with this.

I noticed that my car pulls harder and good at the first 10minutes of a running with the cooland between 160F and 190F and IAT bellow 100F, so it could really be the lack of the intercoler that hurts my car performance.

Besides this, I put back my B16a cams and tune it a little near AFR 12:1, not went to dyno, but at the street the car feels weaker before VTEC, equal after VTEC until 7.5k and weaker between 7.5k and 9k. The car behaves like with S2S2, very smooth like an all motor car.
I will play a little this night with the camgears, just to ensure that the S2S2 is better for my car than the stock B16a cam. So this week I will put again my S2S2 cams and try to find horsepower in other mods that you guys at HT advised me.

Another tinng I will try is to increase a litlle the boost to somethink like 9psi to 10psi, just to see if the GT2871R fells better, of corse the boost will make the car increase the power, I will try to not exceed the 260whp to save my stock internals...

 

doesnt look like a good almotor dyno either way but could be the type of dyno, most dynos read either high or lower

 

Last update:

After change the S2S2 cams for a B16a, and try to tune it on the street this weekend without success, last night I tried to play with the camgears and good news, I tried some combinations and found that +2 -2 is good for the B16a cams and after a little fuel tunning, I decide to stay with the B16a cams instead of the S2S2, Now the car pulls harder and faster after 4k until redline and the turbocharger spools good. The only thing I lost is a little tq at low end. Just to understand, the car with hot IAT and B16a pulls faster than S2S2 and cold IAT. Made some tests with GTECH and I gained 0.5s on 0-100kmh, 0-200mts and 0-400mts and 15kmh trap speed.
I will try to go to the Dynojet again and tune better these camgears and post some results comparing the S2S2 x S2S2T and B16aT.
The intercooler will take a month to arrive to Brazil, and it will help me to gain more hps and reliability, the exhaust I will wait a little to upgrade.

 

you wont see gains from those cams unless you have a huge turbine.

 

Just to Ilustrate the topic, Gtech tests in metric mode and with rollout activated:

From Left to Right:

B16a with CAI, free flow mufller
Skunk2 Stage2 allmotor
Skunk2 Stage2 Turbo @ 0,5bar
B16a turbo @ 0,5bar