I recieved my H&R springs and Koni Yellows today and was looking over the instructions to make sure I had everything down before I began the installation process and ran into a question.

After seeing so much here in the Suspension forum about trimming bumpstops my instructions included in the H&R's packaging said for Honda's "Do not cut or shorten the bumpstop in any way unless otherwise noted."

That being said, later in the instructions it states "to obtain the extra .5 inch lowering the stock bumpstop may be trimmed 1.0 inches..." for my application.

I do not need nor mind the extra drop associated with the trimming of the bumpstops but want to know what will be best for the shocks in regards to travel and not bottoming them out. If I were to trim them would I go 1" from the top or the bottom??


Scan of said instructions:

 

I would not lower a civic 2.75" because you simply run out of travel at those heights. It's weird though as it sounds like this H&R kit is riding on the bumpstops constantly. Not really a good thing, but certainly safer than lowering 2.75"...

If you do trim, use the wider upper-half of the stop...

 

so i'm confused. on H&R's site it says that civic race springs(part # 51865.88) is 2.5F/2.3R, but on this paper you scanned in it says 2.25F/2.0R. any idea on which is right?

 

Here's my experience when I first lowered my car.

I installed H&R Sport springs on Koni Sport shocks. The rear was probably nearly .75" higher than the front and looked retarded, so I set the rear Koni shock perch to the lowest setting to even it out. I left the bumpstops untouched because of those very instructions you just posted. About 2 years later I disassembled my rear suspension to find it had been bottoming out, and the bumpstop had disintegrated to dust. I cut my front stops and used the smaller cut halves on my rear shocks temporarily until I could order new bumpstops.

I don't know why they talk about extra lowering from cutting the bumpstops. Bumpstops have no effect on ride height whatsoever, unless it's already riding on the bumpstops (like 94eg mentioned), in which case your spring rate has already gone to infinite and the car will be very unstable.

So in conclusion, cut your bumpstops in half. You'll be glad you did.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's my experience when I first lowered my car.

I installed H&R Sport springs on Koni Sport shocks. The rear was probably nearly .75" higher than the front and looked retarded, so I set the rear Koni shock perch to the lowest setting to even it out. I left the bumpstops untouched because of those very instructions you just posted. About 2 years later I disassembled my rear suspension to find it had been bottoming out, and the bumpstop had disintegrated to dust. I cut my front stops and used the smaller cut halves on my rear shocks temporarily until I could order new bumpstops.

I don't know why they talk about extra lowering from cutting the bumpstops. Bumpstops have no effect on ride height whatsoever, unless it's already riding on the bumpstops (like 94eg mentioned), in which case your spring rate has already gone to infinite and the car will be very unstable.

So in conclusion, cut your bumpstops in half. You'll be glad you did.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Er, bumpstops are simply additional spring. As long as your shocks can control the combined rate of both the springs and bumpstops, you'll be ok (until the bumpstops disintegrate). It won't produce an infinite rate, just a higher rate than the springs alone would have produced.

It seems that many of the lowering springs out there (and some stock suspensions too), assume that you'll be making use of the bumpstops on a regular basis. People want a softer ride on their dumped daily. If you leave the shock 1/2" from the bumpstop, you can have a softer initial rate, that goes up as the shock moves into the bumpstop.

Try throwing a zip tie on a stock Integra front shock, and see how easy it is to get the shock into the bumpstop just driving around somewhat aggressively on smooth pavement.

On my DC2, lowered to tucking tires, I was sitting on the bumpstops at normal ride height. Yes, it was stiffer, and I couldn't get the car to rotate properly out on the autocross course, but that was simply the byproduct of the stiffer front spring. With the Konis set to 3/4 full stiff, it rode fine, and I daily drove it this way for weeks. Raised up 1.5", and off the bumpstops, I only need the shocks around 1/4 from soft to control the springs, the car rides significantly better, and finally gets the tail to come around. While I wouldn't want my car on the bumpstops, I'm also not concerned with how low my car looks, so my requirements are different than others.

Don't be afraid of bumpstop contact. Just know what you're doing to your car and ride quality.

 

reading this piece of paper more carefully....

on their civic race springs, they have some custom fine tuning feature that evidently allows you to lower an extra .5".

its only saying if you choose to lower it another .5", then cut the bumpstop 1" (or buy their custom bumpstop).

im curious what this "custom fine tuning feature" is....

 

as am I, because I don't see how any bumpstop could affect ride height, unless you're already on the bump stops in the first place, which would mean you're entirely too low to begin with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as am I, because I don't see how any bumpstop could affect ride height, unless you're already on the bump stops in the first place, which would mean you're entirely too low to begin with. </TD></TR></TABLE>

ITS NOT SAYING THE BUMPSTOPS CONTROL RIDE HEIGHT!

just cut the bumpstops if youre going to use the lower ride hieght option.

however that works...

 

no need to yell man. The sheet says "To obtain this extra .5 inch lowering, the stock jounce bumper may be trimmed 1.0 inches... This will provide an approximate lowering of 2.75" front and 2.50" rear."

It looks to me like it's saying that trimming the bumpstop will make the car ride lower.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no need to yell man. The sheet says "To obtain this extra .5 inch lowering, the stock jounce bumper may be trimmed 1.0 inches... This will provide an approximate lowering of 2.75" front and 2.50" rear."

It looks to me like it's saying that trimming the bumpstop will make the car ride lower.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is exactly what I was confused about, from everything I've ever read only spring differences cause a different ride height.

 

Up for more input

 

H&R has been very helpful over the phone to me.

why dont you just call....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">H&R has been very helpful over the phone to me.

why dont you just call....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Calling tomorrow afternoon, just wanted to see if anyone had gone through the process yet.

 

I called and spoke with someone from H&R, they said that the car is riding on the bumpstops as they are "a supplementary spring". Cutting them will just lower the car more, and it will still be riding on the bumpstops.

I'm fairly certain that I will be returning these and get either the Eibach Sportlines or H&R Sports.

PatrickGSR- how did you like your Sport/Yellow setup?

 

blah. that sucks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by the weasel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PatrickGSR- how did you like your Sport/Yellow setup? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I hated my H&R Sport springs. They dropped the car way too much to be only 276 lb/in spring rate.

But I was definitely NOT riding on bump stops.

 

I think what they mean is if you cut the bump stop it allows you to lower the ride height more cause you wont hit them cause they will be shorter.
You definately cant lower the car by cutting bump stops.
Also you will find if you lower the car 1/2 inch you only lose around 1/4 inch travell so it doesnt make sense to me.
Another note is that konis are standard length (308mm closed length FRONT i think)which doesnt help when you wanna go low and retain a decent amount of bump stop.
Try this .
Pick the ride height you want from centre of the the wheel.
Insert shock and top hat without spring (no bump stop).
Jack up suspension to height you picked without wheel (use centre of hub bolt).
Measure how much travel you have left.
Go for around an inch of travel with bump stop.
Say you had 2 inches of total travell without bump stop then you would use a 1 inch bump stop.
Dont forget to check that you hit your bump stops first before anything else if you dont you go for a bigger bump stop and less travell, its all relative to ride height.
If you had 1 inch of travell left then all you can do is just put in a thin peice of rubber there to stop metal from hitting metal.
Or fork trick
Top hats
shorten shocks.
That was long.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TEGNO1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think what they mean is if you cut the bump stop it allows you to lower the ride height more cause you wont hit them cause they will be shorter.
You definately cant lower the car by cutting bump stops.
Also you will find if you lower the car 1/2 inch you only lose around 1/4 inch travell so it doesnt make sense to me.
Another note is that konis are standard length (308mm closed length FRONT i think)which doesnt help when you wanna go low and retain a decent amount of bump stop.
Try this .
Pick the ride height you want from centre of the the wheel.
Insert shock and top hat without spring (no bump stop).
Jack up suspension to height you picked without wheel (use centre of hub bolt).
Measure how much travel you have left.
Go for around an inch of travel with bump stop.
Say you had 2 inches of total travell without bump stop then you would use a 1 inch bump stop.
Dont forget to check that you hit your bump stops first before anything else if you dont you go for a bigger bump stop and less travell, its all relative to ride height.
If you had 1 inch of travell left then all you can do is just put in a thin peice of rubber there to stop metal from hitting metal.
Or fork trick
Top hats
shorten shocks.
That was long.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Based on what H&R told me, you are riding on the bumpstops to begin with. I asked the customer service guy "so if you cut them are you still effectively riding on the bumpstops, just a shorter section of them?". He said yes, you can cut them to tune the drop. This is just lowering the car more by using less of the bumpstop.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by the weasel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Based on what H&R told me, you are riding on the bumpstops to begin with. I asked the customer service guy "so if you cut them are you still effectively riding on the bumpstops, just a shorter section of them?". He said yes, you can cut them to tune the drop. This is just lowering the car more by using less of the bumpstop. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The guy is wrong. You most definitely are NOT riding on bumpstops with H&R springs, or any other spring for that matter. That would be the dumbest design ever. My car used to bottom out with H&R Sport springs and that caused the bumpstops to disintegrate into dust after 3 years or so. If you were riding on the bump stops, they would have been gone long before that.

Whoever you talked to needs to learn some more about the product he represents.

 

Thats doesnt sound like he knows whats going on.
Thats sounds like he said cutting the bump stop will drop the car that would work if you had no springs.
Dont listen.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TEGNO1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats doesnt sound like he knows whats going on.
Thats sounds like he said cutting the bump stop will drop the car that would work if you had no springs.
Dont listen.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, this is why I thought it sounded retarded. Why even use their spring if you're just sitting on the bumpstops anyways? <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The guy is wrong. You most definitely are NOT riding on bumpstops with H&R springs, or any other spring for that matter. That would be the dumbest design ever. My car used to bottom out with H&R Sport springs and that caused the bumpstops to disintegrate into dust after 3 years or so. If you were riding on the bump stops, they would have been gone long before that.

Whoever you talked to needs to learn some more about the product he represents. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. I will probably be going to Eibach. They seem to be more knowlegable about their product so far.

 

The H&R race springs are -2.75" front & -2.5" rear springs. This is extremely low. If you kept the stock bump stops and install those springs, it should be VERY obvious to everyone that the car will simply sit on the bump-stops as they are quite long.

H&R isn't stupid and they DO know this. That is why they say if you don't cut the stops, the car will only lower -2.25" front & -2.0 rear (because its sitting on the stops). What they fail to mention, is that riding on the bump-stops ALL THE TIME will result in terrible handling/ride-quality as well as bump stops that crumble into dust within a year or two anyways...

ALWAYS CUT THE BUMP STOPS WHEN LOWERING.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The H&R race springs are -2.75" front & -2.5" rear springs. This is extremely low. If you kept the stock bump stops and install those springs, it should be VERY obvious to everyone that the car will simply sit on the bump-stops as they are quite long.

H&R isn't stupid and they DO know this. That is why they say if you don't cut the stops, the car will only lower -2.25" front & -2.0 rear (because its sitting on the stops). What they fail to mention, is that riding on the bump-stops ALL THE TIME will result in terrible handling/ride-quality as well as bump stops that crumble into dust within a year or two anyways...

ALWAYS CUT THE BUMP STOPS WHEN LOWERING.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Precisely. So why would they do this if it will make their customers believe that it is the H&R springs which are making it ride so horribly?

BTW: thank you to everyone who has contributed to my thread

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by the weasel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Precisely. So why would they do this if it will make their customers believe that it is the H&R springs which are making it ride so horribly?

BTW: thank you to everyone who has contributed to my thread </TD></TR></TABLE>

You would have to ask them...