Pistons/Wall Clearance/Sleeves/etc...
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Pistons/Wall Clearance/Sleeves/etc...
I have a set of Endyn 85mm pistons that I'm getting ready to put into my block with RS Machine sleeves. Endyn's clearance sheet originally said .0027 to .0029 for the piston to wall clearance, but when I got on the phone with Larry he said to go up to .004 with the RS Machine sleeves because "they shake like hell."
Has anyone had experience with these pistons and/or sleeves and had any problems staying with the tighter clearances?? Will that big of a clearance cause excessive amount of oil to pass by the rings as well as cause the pistons to "slap" during cold starts??
Thanks
Has anyone had experience with these pistons and/or sleeves and had any problems staying with the tighter clearances?? Will that big of a clearance cause excessive amount of oil to pass by the rings as well as cause the pistons to "slap" during cold starts??
Thanks
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,528
Likes: 1
From: back woods, va, usa
to me that seems like alot. i would think maybe .002 or even.003. i dont see how rings could seal for longevity with that clearance. is this all motor or turbo. thats why i love oem parts. u cant beat there clearances.
The Old One
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Re: (Mr Wonderfull)
RS sleeves require .004" - .0045" clearance due to their instability. Wiseco will tell you the same thing when using their pistons in RS blocks.
Detonation and over-heating, and or improper machining clearances will cause pistons to gall, regardless of who's pistons are used.........
Detonation and over-heating, and or improper machining clearances will cause pistons to gall, regardless of who's pistons are used.........
B A N N E D
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: he said touch the blue one
Re: (Mr Wonderfull)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Wonderfull »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Had a set of ENDYNs in my boosted balanced and blueprinted fully built H22 (Golden Eagle sleeves). stock bore machined to ENDYNS Spec... Tuned, the motor didnt get above the loooow 11s in boost. Had piston slap situation with the #4 piston (couldnt figure out what it was till we got it apart.... leading to the teardown. Pretty obvious that the pistons caught the walls...
Here are some pics: Enjoy
That is not the pistons fault there.That is from detination.Not because it was to loose.I would blame the tuner or the driver for that one.
Rebuilt with CPs .</TD></TR></TABLE>
Here are some pics: Enjoy
That is not the pistons fault there.That is from detination.Not because it was to loose.I would blame the tuner or the driver for that one.
Rebuilt with CPs .</TD></TR></TABLE>
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
Re: (Mr Wonderfull)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Wonderfull »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Had a set of ENDYNs in my boosted balanced and blueprinted fully built H22 (Golden Eagle sleeves). stock bore machined to ENDYNS Spec... Tuned, the motor didnt get above the loooow 11s in boost. Had piston slap situation with the #4 piston (couldnt figure out what it was till we got it apart.... leading to the teardown. Pretty obvious that the pistons caught the walls...
Here are some pics: Enjoy
Rebuilt with CPs .</TD></TR></TABLE>
tuners fault or bad machine shop work...
i would say tuner since it shows pretty obvious that some got leaner/detonated worst than others
Here are some pics: Enjoy
Rebuilt with CPs .</TD></TR></TABLE>
tuners fault or bad machine shop work...
i would say tuner since it shows pretty obvious that some got leaner/detonated worst than others
Trending Topics
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,417
Likes: 0
From: ashEVILle, NC, USSR
Re: (ENDYN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ENDYN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RS sleeves require .004" - .0045" clearance due to their instability. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I have an RS block, looks like Darton flanged sleeves to me. No girdle B18A block, 10K revs, good stuff.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF Headers »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is not the pistons fault there.That is from detination.Not because it was to loose.I would blame the tuner or the driver for that one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The machinist was saying that Endyn specs are too tight (in his experience with forgings) before he bored the block - there is no insinuation of too loose here.
The tuner is one I'd trust... the owner/driver is loud mouthed trailer trash, however.
I have an RS block, looks like Darton flanged sleeves to me. No girdle B18A block, 10K revs, good stuff.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF Headers »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is not the pistons fault there.That is from detination.Not because it was to loose.I would blame the tuner or the driver for that one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The machinist was saying that Endyn specs are too tight (in his experience with forgings) before he bored the block - there is no insinuation of too loose here.
The tuner is one I'd trust... the owner/driver is loud mouthed trailer trash, however.
B A N N E D
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: he said touch the blue one
Re: (Joseph Davis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have an RS block, looks like Darton flanged sleeves to me. No girdle B18A block, 10K revs, good stuff.
The machinist was saying that Endyn specs are too tight (in his experience with forgings) before he bored the block - there is no insinuation of too loose here.
The tuner is one I'd trust... the owner/driver is loud mouthed trailer trash, however.</TD></TR></TABLE>Well he said in the OG post that it had piston slap.To me piston slap sounds like its loose not tight.But thats just me.
I have an RS block, looks like Darton flanged sleeves to me. No girdle B18A block, 10K revs, good stuff.
The machinist was saying that Endyn specs are too tight (in his experience with forgings) before he bored the block - there is no insinuation of too loose here.
The tuner is one I'd trust... the owner/driver is loud mouthed trailer trash, however.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Well he said in the OG post that it had piston slap.To me piston slap sounds like its loose not tight.But thats just me.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,417
Likes: 0
From: ashEVILle, NC, USSR
Re: (RMF Headers)
Piston slap that mysteriously develops in mid tune is from piston skirts that run afoul the cylinder walls.
I've been talking to Princess Wonderfull on and off for the past couple months and have more of the back story on his situation than has been expressed in this thread. Frankly, I have no freaking clue what went wrong with his engine, but something somewhere along the lines did.
I had something similar happen to me on a backwoods-redneck-V8-shop-sleeved D16Z6 that had a history of killing pistons 1 and 4 in a similar fashion... the owner wouldn't touch the bores, just dropped more pistons in.
We finally browbeat the guy into going 75.5 and having our favorite local machinist bore the block, and showed him how to do his ring gap. I get the car on the dyno (Mustang) and have it making 248 whp @ 12 psi which are excellent numbers, and it took three pulls at 16 psi with good AFRs and conservative timing to near-lock the engine up the last 1000 rpms. Piston 1 (and sparkplug) was a tortured mess, and the engine slaps again. I still have no idea wtf happened there... the guy's been turning 7.7-7.8's in the 1/8th on it at 12 psi and not even caring. 
I've been talking to Princess Wonderfull on and off for the past couple months and have more of the back story on his situation than has been expressed in this thread. Frankly, I have no freaking clue what went wrong with his engine, but something somewhere along the lines did.
I had something similar happen to me on a backwoods-redneck-V8-shop-sleeved D16Z6 that had a history of killing pistons 1 and 4 in a similar fashion... the owner wouldn't touch the bores, just dropped more pistons in.
We finally browbeat the guy into going 75.5 and having our favorite local machinist bore the block, and showed him how to do his ring gap. I get the car on the dyno (Mustang) and have it making 248 whp @ 12 psi which are excellent numbers, and it took three pulls at 16 psi with good AFRs and conservative timing to near-lock the engine up the last 1000 rpms. Piston 1 (and sparkplug) was a tortured mess, and the engine slaps again. I still have no idea wtf happened there... the guy's been turning 7.7-7.8's in the 1/8th on it at 12 psi and not even caring.
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 1
From: Atl. Beach, fl, duval
Re: (bob menuts)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bob menuts »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">water</TD></TR></TABLE> Is usually necessary. Or just boost that thing cold. Expansion rates are your friend, or not.
Or just boost that thing cold. Expansion rates are your friend, or not.
B A N N E D
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: he said touch the blue one
Re: (DonF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Is usually necessary. Or just boost that thing cold. Expansion rates are your friend, or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>water cooled motorcycles if you dont get atleast get a little heat in them they will cold seize.
Or just boost that thing cold. Expansion rates are your friend, or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>water cooled motorcycles if you dont get atleast get a little heat in them they will cold seize.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post