Ok, so I am looking to get a little more power, and I ran across a set of type s cams. I did a search to get the specs, and I ran across all these people saying the valves clearances aren't enough. What do ya'll mean by this? And why are aftermarket retainers are required? are valve sprigs required too?

Lastly, these will be in my h22 with type s pistons, are these cams worth the extra 150 bucks to get them(after I sell my JDM cams), or should I just stick with the JDM cams?

TIA

 

U just started the debate......some say yes,some no.Some people have ran them w/o valvetrain upgrades w no problems,some have ran them and had problems.Its kinda of one of those things for me that its better safe than sorry,rocker arms are expensive.

But u will get responses saying yes its fine,and no its not.....the choice is yours.

 

Oh....they will make nice gains w ur pistons over jdm cams.

 

so you would recommend valvetrain upgrades?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93sivtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh....they will make nice gains w ur pistons over jdm cams.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Happen to have a Dyno sheet showing this???
TypeS Cam VS JDM H22A Cam?
i have yet to see one done correctly.

 

look at kspec or precisionelite. With a euro-r intake manifold and smsp header, kspec put down 213whp with 11.0:1 compression, and precisionelite put down around 200whp with 10:1 compression.

I will be running these cams at the end of the month as well on a 10:1 setup

Camshafts, as with any other modification will only provide good hp gains if other parts of the motor are optomized. I would suggest it based on the deal that you're getting and the fact that you are 11.0:1. I would expect to gain a few hp from the cams even if all you had were crappy bolt ons. As you add more advanced and better developed modifcations, (custom header, headwork, euro-R IM...etc), the hp gains from the camshafts alone should increase.

whenever you install camshafts other than oem spec, I don't care what anyone tells you...DO NOT HALF *** THINGS AND REPLACE YOUR VALVETRAIN. I hate how everyone whines about this. Its for the safety of the motor. I personally think that a $350 valvetrain is better than replacing a maimed motor. You need to get retainers that allow proper valve guide clearances. I personally have Rocket Motorsports GEN II in my head. And if your rocker arms somehow get destroyed, you can pickup a used head for like $300.

my $0.02


Modified by sivikvtec at 10:35 AM 5/22/2007

 

Dyno numbers like that mean nothing......PEAK Power comparisons from different Dynos with no before and after.
I am talking about a before and after TypeS comparison on the same Dyno.
A TypeS has 20bhp more and it comes from several things, not just cams.

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1833988

maybe you should take a look at this thread then

I understand what you mean about the dyno numbers, but this should be adequate justification.

188whp before with stock motor, header and skunk2 IM

added euro-R IM and type S cams
197whp

If type-S cams were useless, why would honda even made the investment of designing them and kept the original design????

 

I would also love to see where anyone said he was going to gain 20whp. Read the posts more closely before you try to "enlighten" people.

 

Nor did I say he claimed a possible 20whp increase. I simply said that the 20BHP comes from other things.
different cams and intake manifold on a different day is far from a worthy comparison.
I would be suprised to see a few WHP from a TypeS/STD swap.
Honda makes different cams for the TypeS/EuroR for several reasons:
Different intake/intake manifold/pistons/headwork.

sorry, I just see TypeS cams as a Cheap way to possibly gain a few HP and risk your motor. People have become such PEAK POWER ****** these days with no concept of powerbands.

 

LOL

how the hell is a type-S camshaft more "dangerous" than any aftermarket camshaft?????

Furthermore, it appears that type-S cams give better midrange power than alot of aftermarket camshafts. Look at matt's setup with the crower 3's or alot of people that make the mistake of running JUN 3's on stock compression.

For somebody on relatively low compression, type-S cams or the new Skunk 2 pro series seem like a nice choice. I paid $550 for my cams, brand new. Definately not cheaping out on my build, just felt they were most appropriate for my setup.

also, I think everybody and their brother knows the difference between a euro-R motor and a normal h22a. I have no idea how that is even relevant to the OP's question.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sivikvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LOL

how the hell is a type-S camshaft more "dangerous" than any aftermarket camshaft?????

Furthermore, it appears that type-S cams give better midrange power than alot of aftermarket camshafts. Look at matt's setup with the crower 3's or alot of people that make the mistake of running JUN 3's on stock compression.

For somebody on relatively low compression, type-S cams or the new Skunk 2 pro series seem like a nice choice. I paid $550 for my cams, brand new. Definately not cheaping out on my build, just felt they were most appropriate for my setup.

also, I think everybody and their brother knows the difference between a euro-R motor and a normal h22a. I have no idea how that is even relevant to the OP's question.</TD></TR></TABLE>

JUNs are by no means a mistake with stock compression. My powerband goes to 8300+ now! After peaking at 7000 power continues flat line to 8300.
Trust me, I am a huge fan of Skunk cams, I have run them in both of my cars with great results.
i would love to see TypeS cams make better mid range than my Skunks. I saw 12-14whp across the board from them. When people do these comparisons, I really believe its done wrong. I just don't see how a TypeS cam is going to provide bigger mid range gains than an A/M cam. What have people tested them against?

The risk is in destroying your rockers with TypeS cams....

Youre trying to agrue with a guy who has spent countless hours seeing Cam results on the dyno.

 

I am still completely lost as to how rocker arm damage is more likely with type-S cams than with an aftermarket one.

As with any camshaft install, you must check your tolerances to be sure nothing gets screwed up. Many reputable members of the all motor community use and reccomend type-S cams.

If the OP is going to get them for $150, I would go ahead and do it...along with the correct valvetrain.

 

and I seriously hope you're not taking a stock block up to 8300

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sivikvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and I seriously hope you're not taking a stock block up to 8300</TD></TR></TABLE>

I sure am! What would exactly be wrong with that??? Are you another guy that thinks if you rev a stock H22 past 7500 it'll blow up?
Although I do admit I care less about my $600 shortblock than most......
If it makes power up there......Rev it out!!!
If Corey Jacobs HCH1 Prelude can do it during 45 min sessions at 100% I can too!
Im kind of getting the impression that your So-called knowledge is all theory and no practice. Its Ok, theres alot of people here that are like that......
I am also the guy that sprays a 100 shot on a stock motor, turns 30-45min sessions roadracing to 8000+. Some call it *****! others call it lack of brains. Who knows whos right?!?!

If youre wondering how Rocker Arm damage is more likely with TypeS cams you obviously haven't read into the m that much.

 

If you know everything..

since I obviously have no idea what i'm talking about.

PERHAPS YOU CAN TELL ME WHY THE TYPE-S CAMS ARE MORE DANGEROUS THAN OTHER AFTERMARKET ONES

I MEAN YOU KNOW EVERYTHING

AND I'VE ASKED YOU 3 TIMES NOW

AND YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTION

quit being an amateur know it all. You would be surprised at how much I know...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sivikvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you know everything..

since I obviously have no idea what i'm talking about.

PERHAPS YOU CAN TELL ME WHY THE TYPE-S CAMS ARE MORE DANGEROUS THAN OTHER AFTERMARKET ONES

I MEAN YOU KNOW EVERYTHING

AND I'VE ASKED YOU 3 TIMES NOW

AND YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTION

quit being an amateur know it all. You would be surprised at how much I know...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have never spent enough time reading into it as I never considered the swap. Valve seat angle is what is mentioned. Just installing TypeS cams into a non-TypeS VT'd head seems to have caused more issues than aftermarket installs.

I may not be surprised as to how much you know.....Sometimes limited thread replies don't let people express that theyre trying to say fast enough.

This has turned into another TypeS why/why not thread......

BTW, I am a Professional Know a little.......not amateur know it all.

 

Big Sexy,to answer ur question,yes I would reccomend that.

As far as the type s cam making more power,I dont have a dyno,but know more than a couple people made from 7-12 hp with these cams over stock h22 cams,1 I know for sure was a jdm swap,the others Im not sure,and these gains came from tuning,not just dropping in a set of cams and calling it a day.I think paired w the pistons and dyno session,these cams would make descent power over jdm h22 cams,they are just more aggressive than the jdm cams.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by :=:NirVTEC:=: &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have never spent enough time reading into it as I never considered the swap. Valve seat angle is what is mentioned. Just installing TypeS cams into a non-TypeS VT'd head seems to have caused more issues than aftermarket installs.

I may not be surprised as to how much you know.....Sometimes limited thread replies don't let people express that theyre trying to say fast enough.

This has turned into another TypeS why/why not thread......

BTW, I am a Professional Know a little.......not amateur know it all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So if you DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHY/HOW/IF TYPE-S CAMSHAFTS DO IN FACT DAMAGE ROCKER ARMS, why would you speak as if you KNEW FOR SURE that they would cause damage???? Some poor guy might make a decision based off this thread (and your misinformation )

I've seen situations/threads where JUN/toda/skunk/crower cams caused damage as well. I understand that you have some knowledge that you would like to share. But if you are going to say that Type-S cams are a cheap way out and cause damage to the motor, you better be able to back it up. Which you have completely failed to do.

 

So stock cams untuned VS TypeS Cams tuned.....I will agree with some power there, but yet another unfair comparison.
There are plenty of topics discussing TypeS cams if you search......
i am just done with this!!!!
JUNs/Skunks FTW!
I am wasting time reading about Cams that I would never install in my motor. I feel less risky revving my stock motor up to 8300 than revving the stock powerband on TypeS Cams.
Im going to leave it at that........
Buy aftermarket cams or don't waste your time.....thats my final .02

 

and after all that

you never answered my question :sigh:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by :=:NirVTEC:=: &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I read some threads on the interweb that made me scarred about type-S cams. I am ignoring the fact that many trusted engine builders believe in type-S cams. I am going to give blind "advice" based on second hand information from the internet. If its not a big *** camshaft, its not worth the time/money. 8300rpm on a stock block is absolutely fine!!!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm coming up to chicago next month to get my setup tuned at whipfactory. Maybe you would like to see my crappy type-S cams and stock H22A1 block put down more whp than your laughable 11:1 motor with JUN 3's.

 

Guys guys guys! Can we be civil about this? I made a new thread because the others I found were pretty out of date. I didn't mean for this to turn into a debate. I just wanted to know what the fuss was on why the type S cams were cosidered dangerous to the rockers on the JDM VT? And how can this be solved.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by :=:NirVTEC:=: &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So stock cams untuned VS TypeS Cams tuned.....I will agree with some power there, but yet another unfair comparison.
There are plenty of topics discussing TypeS cams if you search......
i am just done with this!!!!
JUNs/Skunks FTW!
I am wasting time reading about Cams that I would never install in my motor. I feel less risky revving my stock motor up to 8300 than revving the stock powerband on TypeS Cams.
Im going to leave it at that........
Buy aftermarket cams or don't waste your time.....thats my final .02

</TD></TR></TABLE>

and guy. I am not made of money. I would love to blow a grand on cams alone. But I am trying to put myself through law school, and quite frankly, it just isn't that important to me.

And I have searched, but I found no hard evidence of people posting picture of how their cams destroyed their rockers. If you have valuable information, then please share it, but if all you have is hearsay, then you might want to do some more research. You said yourself you have never researched as they were never an option, and that is fine. But ot everyone can spend gobs of money like some people can, and if you have that kind of cash, more power to ya!

And if I make 12-14 horsepower, as I have heard that type s make some decent midrange, you are right, it isn't and shouldn't be all about peak power, from a $150 dollar investment? I find that to be a good deal. You spend more on an exhaust and won't make 12-14 whp, correct?

 

with the correct valvetrain. Such as rocket motorsports, the retainer gives the appropriate clearance. Along with a proper valve job prior to startup, you should be fine. Just ask frank at pocketrockets, piratemcfred, brad at rlz, or any other PROFESSIONALS on this site

don't bother, if you can't afford to change out your valvetrain. I was trying to decide on this last september and researched it fully.


Modified by sivikvtec at 10:36 AM 5/22/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sivikvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with the correct valvetrain. Such as rocket motorsports, the thinner retainer gives the appropriate clearance. Along with a proper valve job prior to startup, you should be fine. Just ask frank at pocketrockets, piratemcfred, brad at rlz, or any other PROFESSIONALS on this site

don't bother, if you can't afford to change out your valvetrain. I was trying to decide on this last september and researched it fully. </TD></TR></TABLE>

well, the retainers from RS really aren't that much, and even then, I would still only have something like 250 in them. do they just cause the rockers to wear down?

with the thinner retainers? does that move the rockers down a little and allow less wear?