ok i was thinking what would be better and i thought i go for you guys opinion, which one do u think would be better to do put a turbo in my 92 accord or do a engine swap. make sure you think about the outcome though for both of them and the price and the work that it would take, use that to think for your vote of which one would be better to do>>>??

 

Depending on the condition of your motor is a determining factor. Do a compression leak down test and see what kind of compression numbers you come up with... I'd do that before I went spending money to boost it and it blowing up, or swapping a motor when yours could be perfectly okay to boost.

 

F series love boost, but if is not worked then it will blow. been that route with a low milage jdm f22. boosted at 10psi and broke the piston ring lands. in the 4 and 3 cylinder. you can always go the h22 swap. but dont even think about boosting that motor without alot of block work, sleeved is the number one thing that will run you 1300 or more. plus youll need low compression pistons , 500-600, rods, 350-500, bearings, and oil pump . the head is fine in both cases , will take 20 psi no problems. its cheaper to build what you got then boost it. and see 300whp . dont boost any stock honda motor, it will not hold up . i have seen many stock motors get a turbo and 1-5000 miles they come back and then they deceid to build it to hold 10 psi or more. you can get sleeved f series for 600 to get 16 safe psi . and thats about 230-260 whp . depending on amount of upgrades. If it was me , i would build what i got and turbo later. If your anxious then swap h22 and get a little bit faster . but accord is a heavy car. and needs the torque from the f series motor. thats why b and h series came in lighter weight cars. more top end power. higher revs.
just figure out your budget . and see what you can and cant afford. i hope this has been helpful

 

yea that was what i was starting to think about cause i was going to just do a engine swap for a h22 but now that i am starting to think about it im thinking about putting my money into my engine now instead of buy the engine, but what should i go putting my money into for my accord i have about 2k its something to start with any suggestions

 

there are only a couple of issues with boosting the h22, the most important is the ringlands, take care of those and you'll be fine.
my question is what are you power goals, what kind of driving do you plan on doing with this power? you could go both routes and swap a h22 or h23 head on your f block and then turbo it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaburner1995 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">F series love boost, but if is not worked then it will blow. been that route with a low milage jdm f22. boosted at 10psi and broke the piston ring lands. in the 4 and 3 cylinder. you can always go the h22 swap. but dont even think about boosting that motor without alot of block work, sleeved is the number one thing that will run you 1300 or more. plus youll need low compression pistons , 500-600, rods, 350-500, bearings, and oil pump . the head is fine in both cases , will take 20 psi no problems. its cheaper to build what you got then boost it. and see 300whp . dont boost any stock honda motor, it will not hold up . i have seen many stock motors get a turbo and 1-5000 miles they come back and then they deceid to build it to hold 10 psi or more. you can get sleeved f series for 600 to get 16 safe psi . and thats about 230-260 whp . depending on amount of upgrades. If it was me , i would build what i got and turbo later. If your anxious then swap h22 and get a little bit faster . but accord is a heavy car. and needs the torque from the f series motor. thats why b and h series came in lighter weight cars. more top end power. higher revs.
just figure out your budget . and see what you can and cant afford. i hope this has been helpful</TD></TR></TABLE>
'07 ftl.

an h22 will have more tq than an f22. you talk of psi as if thats the determining factor in engine longevity, which makes me wonder if you know what you are talking about...you should be more concerned with cfm, and thereby power level produced, as 10psi out of a t25 is no where near 10psi out of a t88 for example.
sleeving an f22 for 230whp? haha...thats reliable stock block turf there, no need to **** money away when the stock can easily support upwards of 250whp.

What kind of engine management were you using on your boosted f22 and what other modifications were done??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by street_accord94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
'07 ftl.

an h22 will have more tq than an f22. you talk of psi as if thats the determining factor in engine longevity, which makes me wonder if you know what you are talking about...you should be more concerned with cfm, and thereby power level produced, as 10psi out of a t25 is no where near 10psi out of a t88 for example.
sleeving an f22 for 230whp? haha...thats reliable stock block turf there, no need to **** money away when the stock can easily support upwards of 250whp.

What kind of engine management were you using on your boosted f22 and what other modifications were done??</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha i was thinking the same thing.

 

well i was informed that the h-series motors where high rev motors and loss the torque from having a high comp ratio. and such the f series had more torque than the h-series . Thats being boosted. now one on one no turbo . the h22 even h23 has more power than the f22 sohc vtec. I was also told that the f20 and h22 where about the same motor. in hp . and torque. your right about the amount of cfm a motor can handle. and yes your right about the f series blocks being able to take 250chp. the sleeves wont last long. the pistons wont take that much !!! rods sure as hell wont hold up !! lets say you got a low milage stock f22b1 sohc vtec. you throw a t3t4 turbo on there. all the other fancy ****. clutch, flywheel, axels, intake. exhaust . ect. to get 250 your boosting atleast 16-17 psi. ok , also your tuned on a hondata s100 ecu. your telling me you can do that ?? cuz i have been there and sure as hell didnt get that far. i say you need to do more research . stock will not hold 250 or even 230. IT WONT !!!!

 

well i dont know a lot, but i have heard F serious love being boosted. Search on http://www.cb7tuner.com. they have so much info there, and its all directed to your/my model accord

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaburner1995 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was also told that the f20 and h22 where about the same motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Only if you're talking about the F20B. The F20B and H22 are very similar... The F20A, F20C, and F20Z motors are very different from the H22.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaburner1995 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and yes your right about the f series blocks being able to take 250chp. the sleeves wont last long. the pistons wont take that much !!! rods sure as hell wont hold up !! lets say you got a low milage stock f22b1 sohc vtec. you throw a t3t4 turbo on there. all the other fancy ****. clutch, flywheel, axels, intake. exhaust . ect. to get 250 your boosting atleast 16-17 psi. ok , also your tuned on a hondata s100 ecu. your telling me you can do that ?? cuz i have been there and sure as hell didnt get that far. i say you need to do more research . stock will not hold 250 or even 230. IT WONT !!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Stock sleeves will hold plenty more than that. Stock rods will hold at that level. The ringlands, maybe not. Just because yours didn't, doesn't mean that every other stock motor won't handle that power. I'm willing to bet a large amount of money that your engine gave out due to some other problem, like for example, your tune.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JohnD1079 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i dont know a lot, but i have heard F serious love being boosted. Search on http://www.cb7tuner.com. they have so much info there, and its all directed to your/my model accord</TD></TR></TABLE>

No need to search another site. There's tons of info on this site already.

 

im not so sure you know what your talking about..search around there are plenty of people here with a stock f22 motor thats turboed putting down 250whp with a good tune and a good setup...and I dont know why people over and over and over again say h22's cant handle boost..you can boost an h22 like 8 psi and have no problems read up you'll find that out...like people have said before the weak part of an h22 is the ringlands..nothing to do with you having to sleeve it...yes that would help you so you could run lower compression pistons..but you dont have to...im starting to think that a)you have never boosted an h22 or an f22..and b) you dont know anyone that has...I have a feeling you just think you know everything on the face of the earth about turbos..i myself have never turboed either...but im just going off what ive reserached for the past 2 years on turboing both motors

 

so which one would be a better choice to go and spend my money on the turbo setup or an engine swap since i only have a f22a1 in my accord now?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaburner1995 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i was informed that the h-series motors where high rev motors and loss the torque from having a high comp ratio. and such the f series had more torque than the h-series . Thats being boosted. now one on one no turbo . the h22 even h23 has more power than the f22 sohc vtec. I was also told that the f20 and h22 where about the same motor. in hp . and torque. your right about the amount of cfm a motor can handle. and yes your right about the f series blocks being able to take 250chp. the sleeves wont last long. the pistons wont take that much !!! rods sure as hell wont hold up !! lets say you got a low milage stock f22b1 sohc vtec. you throw a t3t4 turbo on there. all the other fancy ****. clutch, flywheel, axels, intake. exhaust . ect. to get 250 your boosting atleast 16-17 psi. ok , also your tuned on a hondata s100 ecu. your telling me you can do that ?? cuz i have been there and sure as hell didnt get that far. i say you need to do more research . stock will not hold 250 or even 230. IT WONT !!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>
I need to research? HAHAHAHA...I already had a turbo setup and sold it, now I have an h22a; it's you that have no idea what they are talking about here. I'm sure on a healthy f22 the internals can handle 230-250whp, provided it is tuned correctly. As philadd stated, the weakest point is the ringlands, definitely not the rods or stock sleeves. Judging from what you list to make 250whp, I wonder if you've been down that road before...

 

Quite a few people are on 250 whp with stock internals on a f22, no need to go 15+ PSI to get that (depending on what turbo you go with)

 

hey i have a question &gt; I had a t3t4 on a stock internals, broke the piston ring lands at 230hp and the motor was a f22 vtec jdm low milage, and your saying that it should have held more. We dyno tuned the car , took it for a test run and boom. theres the smoke. Didnt make it a 1/4 mile. it had 229whp and 220fpt.

 

every engine is different, however i feel yours most likely still had more life in it provided it was well maintained and didn't have any preexisting issues...who tuned the car...a professional or a guy doing it on the side?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dcskater6767 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so which one would be a better choice to go and spend my money on the turbo setup or an engine swap since i only have a f22a1 in my accord now?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think looking at this thread should tell you alot. Lots of people boost the F22 and make good power. There are folks in here who have run well over 200whp for over 20K miles with no major troubles. There are others who blew motors left and right. Likewise, a swap is 'easier,' but a swap gone wrong is a nightmare.

So answer this:

1) Who is doing the work? Are you doing it? A shop? What is the specialty/level of ability of the wrench turners?

2) What is the condition of the car? Have you done a compression check on the motor? Is the cooling system in good shape? How about mounts and axles? Unless the car is 100% you need to budget some R&R work (see #3)

3) What is your budget? A turbo can usually be done cheaper than a swap. You should also be looking at replacement or servicing of mounts/hoses/radiator and everything else that will be stressed harder with either the swap or the turbo.

I would take a good look at the car. If it is in tip top shape, go turbo. otoh, if the car has a billion miles, and the motor is getting rough, do the swap.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaburner1995 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i was informed that the h-series motors where high rev motors and loss the torque from having a high comp ratio. and such the f series had more torque than the h-series .</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is just not true. More compression=more torque. Period, that's physics not opinion. The H has less torque at a givien rpm due to things like head design, port sizing/placement, cam sizing, etc. You need to remember though that the H22 has shorter gearing to match it's powerband, so around town the H22 is any worse than the F22.

 

The F-series has more torque in the lower rpm range because it has a longer stroke. Period. If you want more torque, you increase stroke. If you want a higher-revving engine, you decrease stroke.

 

400 per hour for Dynu tune. Very expensive where I live. We put a Gm 3 Bar MAP Sensor, Hondata S100. Spent 800 that day and left with no car. Not a good day. I still dont understand why my motor broke when I just installed it , 30-40k miles jdm motor. Everyone Told me that they were boost friendly. At 10 psi my motor broke??????

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accord380whp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">400 per hour for Dynu tune. Very expensive where I live. We put a Gm 3 Bar MAP Sensor, Hondata S100. Spent 800 that day and left with no car. Not a good day. I still dont understand why my motor broke when I just installed it , 30-40k miles jdm motor. Everyone Told me that they were boost friendly. At 10 psi my motor broke??????</TD></TR></TABLE>

Was it tuned right?

 

I am assuming it was ? I took it to a specailist. Thats what they do is tune Hondas. All I know is I just got done spending money on a motor that will hold boost now. I wasnt planning on spending an additional 4000 just for block work.

 

To the OP, boost it... my vote. I am biased though.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accord380whp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey i have a question &gt; I had a t3t4 on a stock internals, broke the piston ring lands at 230hp and the motor was a f22 vtec jdm low milage, and your saying that it should have held more. We dyno tuned the car , took it for a test run and boom. theres the smoke. Didnt make it a 1/4 mile. it had 229whp and 220fpt. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes it should have held more given it was in good condition, proper fuel management, and the tune was right. The f22 is very boost friendly and I would evaluate what went wrong before you go droping a bunch more money in tuning with the same guy. Did you see the broken ringlandings or are you just assuming it was the landings? How many cyl's had ringlanding damage? Do you know what the a/f was looking like when tuning, how about timing? Any boost creep or other issues? Just trying to get a good picture of the situation you were in.

Mine held 335whp on the dyno and street with a bone stock usdm f22b1... had just a turbo kit, fuel management, and great tuning by suprdave. Ran it like that and beat on it for quite some time. Eventually lifted the head with a heavy boost spike (my fault on that), I did not have him setup a boost cut (also my fault).

 

Well, I installed a bigger flow 275lph fuel pump, AEM fuel rail, and 4 550cc RC Injectors. I installed the turbo Kit. Drove it to the Dyno Shop. ( Brauning motorsports) oh , i installed the injectors when i got there. It ran kinda crappy on the way there. Check engine light reading a MAP sensor code. Put the injectors in and hooked up a GM 3-bar map sensor, and set a base map for the hondata ecu. He started to run a few test and proceeded to tune the car. Never checked for timing or did anything else to the car. He ask me if there were anything upgraded in the motor. I said its all stock , And i told him i would ike to see 14 psi. He said my motor wouldnt hold it. I said well so many people have said that they run well with 14 psi. Any way after paying for the service I left and got on hard down the road. And like i said at 120 going in to fifth gear. BOOM. So i drove it back. Got out the car and was cussing , I drove 1 1/2 hours and paid for something that just broke. So he was saying the piston ring lands broke by the back pressure coming out the cylinder head. and the tremendous amount of grey smoke coming from the exhaust. He convinced me to get the motor built to hold 14 psi . So I said if i was going to builld the motor then why not go all out , darton sleeves. +2mm forged pistons , hp rods. the works. and upgraded the valves. springs. and retainers. He called me after the motor was taken out. Said the ring lands broke on one piston and scratched the cylinder wall. As far as the boost creep goes im not to sure on that , had a boost controller. Was set at 12psi. well the boost gauge never went over that. &gt; I have 3 pieces of paper from the dyno tune , HP , TQ, A/F . How to I load them on here so maybe you can see them and get a better idea of what my car was doing , I think i have explained it all . Any help would be greatful.

 

Do you know of mark brauning ? There professional racers. and work with nothing but mainly Hondas. And there know for professional Tuning. Thats why i thought that everything was ok to go there.