Been searching, but would like to start a new thread about SQ:
My goal is to have the best 2-channel SQ in my 94 GSR. For head unit, have considered Eclipse, McIntosh, Clarion, and Kenwood only because it would interface with my Music Keg.
For 2-channel amp, thinking Butler, Zapco, US, Brax, etc.
2-way fronts, CDT, Focal, DLS, Dynaudio, Diamond. Thinking soft vs metal for the tweeter, as the metals I've tried seem to cause fatigue.
I have a rear, enclosure mounted sub, with amp, using an old Soundstream and 10" Elemental Designs sub, which I think I won't deal with now...
For mp3/wav playback, probably go with a Zen since I hated dealing with a ipod when I tried it, and probably won't be using Kenwood for hu so can't use the Keg.
Have had the doors matted, but considering the floor and roof...

So, you experienced, "tried it all" installers and users, what are your recommendations? Thx in advance!!!

 

you are talking way to much about equipment and not nearly enough about install for a "best 2-channel sq" - on top of that you are talking about using less than stellar media sources (zen, music keg, mp3/wav - unless everything is ripped lossless) - so perhaps before you go down this road, you may want to decide what exactly is important to you with this system and how good of sq you REALLY want. You also don't have a budget posted...

 

Ok, based on what was said:

1. Budget: 3k equipment, 1k install
2. Sources: 90% cd, 10% mp3/wav

I know this is a broad request, just wanting to discuss equipment from the viewpoint of sq and price.


So thanx, if anyone hates my post feel free to flame. Just wishing to learn. Perhaps need to rename my post to: Best 4k sq!

 

if you have a budget of $3000 for the whole thing you may want to look at some of the brands you have listed. Brax certainly does not fit into that price range

 

Thanx for the info. I'm coming at this from my home audio, so I'm hoping to get the sound very good. One thing that is a bummer is that it's very hard to find a vendor that has some or even any of the brands I'd like to test out.

 

What I would do with that:

Clarion DRZ-9255
Seas Lotus Comps
2 x IDQ12
Arc Audio SE2300 and 4200

Spend the rest on install and make sure that you go to the right person to get it done. Mids and tweeters in kickpanels vented to the crush zone up front, sealed subs in the rear. Get the right person to tune it and game over

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by syvlvr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanx for the info. I'm coming at this from my home audio</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now you're speaking my language. what kind of a system are you trying to replicate in your car?

 

Plinius cd-lad pre, Odyssey Stratos amp, Onix Reference mkII speakers, Eastern Electric minimax cd. Mix of rca cables, monster speaker cables. Pretty basic, but I like the sound...

But then the meld of audio/video has occurred, so I'm now running Outlaw 990/5 channel amp in place of Plinius/Odyssey. Almost as good but gives me the processing for all the audio/video.

I see by your avatar you're into Classe, nice stuff!!! Is there any Canuck car audio to tell about?

 

Thanx for the info. I'm coming at this from my home audio, so I'm hoping to get the sound very good. One thing that is a bummer is that it's very hard to find a vendor that has some or even any of the brands I'd like to test out.

 

Plinius cd-lad pre, Odyssey Stratos amp, Onix Reference mkII speakers, Eastern Electric minimax cd. Mix of rca cables, monster speaker cables. Pretty basic, but I like the sound...

But then the meld of audio/video has occurred, so I'm now running Outlaw 990/5 channel amp in place of Plinius/Odyssey. Almost as good but gives me the processing for all the audio/video.

I see by your avatar you're into Classe, nice stuff!!! Is there any Canuck car audio to tell about?

 

so ummm...why did you post the same messages?

 

I don't know what happened. Must be iohs...insufficient operator headspace...I'm stoopid!

Then again, I don't recall hitting the post button 2x...doh.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What I would do with that:

Clarion DRZ-9255
Seas Lotus Comps
2 x IDQ12
Arc Audio SE2300 and 4200

Spend the rest on install and make sure that you go to the right person to get it done. Mids and tweeters in kickpanels vented to the crush zone up front, sealed subs in the rear. Get the right person to tune it and game over </TD></TR></TABLE>

What do you think about components in a custom door pannel?

 

Hey, I also have an old Soundstream amp pushing a sealed 10" Elemental Designs sub. Works great. Why are you feeling negative about them?

I'm going for pure SQ in my 94 as well (Prelude that is). However, I'd never let anyone lay a finger on my install, let alone pay them to do it. I say raise your equipment budget a grand by doing everything yourself. It takes a little more cursing and frustration and working upside-down on dark hard-to-reach places, but it brings more satisfaction.

How much trunk space are you willing to sacrifice? I have a Helix B4 amp going under the passenger seat. Thinnest amp I could find, and it also happens to be high-end. Passive crossovers and active crossover and equalizer are also hidden in strange places. Lots of deadening and sound blocking foam, since road noise is the enemy.

If you have a large budget and you're going for SQ I HIGHLY recommend you get an equalizer. Not one of those in-dash 1/2 DIN 5-band EQs, but a 30-band trunk mount EQ. Unlike your home, your car is going to cause resonance at funny frequencies and the only way to flatten it out is to EQ it. Makes a huge difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imadigitalgod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What do you think about components in a custom door pannel?</TD></TR></TABLE>

terrible idea if you want the car to stage and image well

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudemanDan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey, I also have an old Soundstream amp pushing a sealed 10" Elemental Designs sub. Works great. Why are you feeling negative about them?</TD></TR></TABLE>

all it would take is a casual search on the net to see why you would feel bad about eD

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you have a large budget and you're going for SQ I HIGHLY recommend you get an equalizer. Not one of those in-dash 1/2 DIN 5-band EQs, but a 30-band trunk mount EQ. Unlike your home, your car is going to cause resonance at funny frequencies and the only way to flatten it out is to EQ it. Makes a huge difference. </TD></TR></TABLE>

While recommending an EQ is a good idea, a trunk mount is a terrible idea, imo. There are so many great units that can be controlled from the dash - especially the digital units with built in parametric eq, that you'd be crazy to get some oldschool 31's in the back - running back and forth is not fun.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
While recommending an EQ is a good idea, a trunk mount is a terrible idea, imo. There are so many great units that can be controlled from the dash - especially the digital units with built in parametric eq, that you'd be crazy to get some oldschool 31's in the back - running back and forth is not fun.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree that tuning from the trunk is not fun. That's why I hollowed out one of my upper back seat cushions, made a plastic enclosure inside it, and hid the EQ in there. It looks stock from outside but I can lift up the front of the cushion and adjust the EQ while sitting in the driver's seat. It took work but it was worth it. You can also lean on the cushion and it feels normal.

I use the EQ not to control the loudness curve, but to correct for frequency response issues. To do this properly, I think 30 bands is necessary, since on my correction curve there are sometimes drastic differences between settings 1/3 octave apart. And since your car's FR doesn't change when you change CDs, once you have the EQ set you really don't need to fork with it any more.

 

Nice work on getting the eq's up front.

I hate to say it, but I disagree with you whole heartedly about the capabilities of a parametric eq.

First, if you have drastic changes from band to band, or are adding/cutting by more than 3db, there's another, underlying issue with your car that should be fixed first.

Second, a good 10 or even 5 band parametric eq is much more flexible than a 31band fixed center, fixed q, graphic equalizer.

I don't even know what you mean by "loudness curve" as I've never heard that term used before.

With dsp systems being affordable, you can easily setup presets and swap back and forth between settings - you can't do that with an analog setup. The real trick to tuning is in x-over points, level setting, and phase adjustment - and all of this can be controlled by dsp. EQ should be the very last thing you touch and the less you add the better. If you have adjusted more than a few bands on a 31 band eq - something else is wrong...

 

By loudness curve I mean the effect the loudness button has. Turning up the treble and bass. That's what we did with EQs when we were kids before we came to appreciate their real function and SQ.

Anyway, I agree that you shouldn't have to adjust an EQ too much. I have some bands attenuated 6db or more. What's wrong is: IT'S A CAR. No matter how much you try and deaden it or seal up the doors or blend the sub, it's still a mediocre environment for audio. Rather than carpet the whole interior and tear all the body panels off and fill it all with deadener and try to make it as much like a house as possible, I prefer to run a large EQ (and some deadening, of course). It has made a huge difference in increasing SQ and reducing listening fatigue.

It's pretty easy to tune. Just burn a CD with test tones to match the eq adustment frequencies, and adjust to match.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudemanDan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">By loudness curve I mean the effect the loudness button has. Turning up the treble and bass. That's what we did with EQs when we were kids before we came to appreciate their real function and SQ.</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh god, yeah, I think we've all left that behind

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyway, I agree that you shouldn't have to adjust an EQ too much. I have some bands attenuated 6db or more. What's wrong is: IT'S A CAR. No matter how much you try and deaden it or seal up the doors or blend the sub, it's still a mediocre environment for audio. Rather than carpet the whole interior and tear all the body panels off and fill it all with deadener and try to make it as much like a house as possible, I prefer to run a large EQ (and some deadening, of course). It has made a huge difference in increasing SQ and reducing listening fatigue.

It's pretty easy to tune. Just burn a CD with test tones to match the eq adustment frequencies, and adjust to match.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's very possible that large adjustments in your eq could be fixed with phase, level, or crossover adjustments - there could be an underlying issue that can be fixed in another manner rather than large eq usage - that's all I'm saying.

I think you and I just approach tuning in different ways. Always more than one way to skin a cat.

 

Nah, I fully agree that the starting point should be as tuned as possible. Actually, I noticed my right speaker sounds kind crappy compared to my left so I'm going to reinstall it this weekend (when it stops raining ). Also, I just installed an Audiocontrol 24xs crossover, which I have yet to play with. It has a cool wave alignment feature that I'm hoping will help with interference at the xover point. You're in SF; it would be fun to compare installs sometime.

[/hijack]

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

terrible idea if you want the car to stage and image well</TD></TR></TABLE>

what if u can make them point in the right direction? it should be the same cuz its in the same area/location. if ur able to do that i dont see the problem. Currently I am making custom door pods and they close to where the kick pannels are and they are pointed where they should. Also they are components where i can point the tweeter exactly where i want it. I so see that it wont be 100% exactly like a kicl panel but to me it comes very close. plz explain more if u can


Modified by imadigitalgod at 7:32 PM 4/14/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imadigitalgod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what if u can make them point in the right direction? it should be the same cuz its in the same area/location. if ur able to do that i dont see the problem. Currently I am making custom door pods and they close to where the kick pannels are and they are pointed where they should. Also they are components where i can point the tweeter exactly where i want it. I so see that it wont be 100% exactly like a kicl panel but to me it comes very close. plz explain more if u can


Modified by imadigitalgod at 7:32 PM 4/14/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

you can point them in the right direction as much as you want..but because they're in the door, the path length is still going to vary a lot in comparison to the kick panel area. depending on where you put them in the doors the distance could vary as much as 18 inch which is a huge amount.

Door's are really only suitable for midbass drivers when you've already got your mids and tweeters in your kick panels.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Door's are really only suitable for midbass drivers when you've already got your mids and tweeters in your kick panels.</TD></TR></TABLE>[QUOTE=EBP_SI]

ill finish these door pannels and then build kickpanels, maybe have both sets of speakers up front but ill see how these components sound in the door pannel.

but about the distance difference, if i keep the door panels, would an Alpine cd player with Time Correction work to improve the imaging?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imadigitalgod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ill finish these door pannels and then build kickpanels, maybe have both sets of speakers up front but ill see how these components sound in the door pannel. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I hope you're not thinking of running 2 sets of components in the front. if so you might as well run stock speakers in the factory location.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but about the distance difference, if i keep the door panels, would an Alpine cd player with Time Correction work to improve the imaging?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes and no. you can improve the imageing with time alignment but you'll be improving it in one seat, and ruining what you have for the other seats. also why rely on DSP when you can install them in a better location and have better imaging. you'll also have better stage width with kick panels.