yesterday at the track , as im going through the gears i go to shift from 3rd to 4th and my dumbass goes back into 2nd by accident and i over rev the hell outta the car. so when i get off he track i get under the car and check for leaks and any strange noises coming from either the tranny or diff. i found no leaks or noises, im just worried that i may have damaged something ..so what are the chances that i did? should i need to worry ? the only thing i had was the smell of clutch... later this week i plan on changing the fluid in my tranny and diff, hopefully i don't find alot of metal shavings.

 

Its not the tranny or diff you should be worried about. Its the valves. If your cars still running, you may be ok, but Id go have the valves checked.

Where in south jersey are you and what track where you at?

 

if its not missfiring right away, u might be still ok, but make sure its idling good and no smoke out the back.

 

hahahaha,,,what the hell from 3rd to 2nd gear at the track.your cracking me the hell out man.that's ok **** happens.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by revhi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its not the tranny or diff you should be worried about. Its the valves. If your cars still running, you may be ok, but Id go have the valves checked.

Where in south jersey are you and what track where you at?</TD></TR></TABLE>


thanks yea maybe i will bring it to honda to get them checked or adjusted.

im located in burlington county...i was at atco raceway....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s2kdre &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if its not misfiring right away, u might be still ok, but make sure its idling good and no smoke out the back.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea it not misfiring at all, the idle is where it normally is, and there is def no smoke coming from the car ..i guess am kinda lucky to have only 14k on it ...

 

compression test would be a good idea. how long was it in second gear for? just for a split second? if so you're 99% okay.

 

rev limmiter?

 

Definately check out your valve retainers. They are the first thing to go in an over-rev. The valves start to float, and the followers lose contact with the camshaft. The springs will slam the valve shut instead of being closed gently by the cam profile. This puts an impact load on the retainers, which will can crack them. If the retainers fail, then the valve can drop down in the seats, eventually contacting a piston.

If you survived an over-rev, you're lucky. Check retainers to see if any valve stems have begun to sag. If I were you, I'd replace them all. They are only a couple bucks each and you've put an incredible strain on them. Dropping a valve will cost many thousands of dollars.

 

And unfortunately, the weakened retainers may not show cracks for a year or more. Only sure way to be safe is to replace the retainers. This can be done without removing the head.

Some knowledgeable folks on s2ki (Billman) says that he's only seen failures on the intake valve retainers. If money is a concern, just replace those. Otherwise, do them all. To have someone else do the work should run about $500 parts+labor for all 16 retainers.

 

Ive never went into 2nd from a 3rd to 4th shift. My common mistake is going into 5th from 2nd to 3rd.

 

I'm surprised nothing happened to the engine. In fact, I have a hard time believing it.

I did the same mis-shift on a GSR once. The engine didn't blow but the valves did get bent and I had to replace them all. After that I never felt good about that car. Not a good feeling.

Now I'm very careful about repeating the same mistake. It's too easy to do...it just takes a split second. There are shifting methods though that help prevent it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ReddotsS2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">rev limmiter?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Doesn't doesn't do **** when the engine is over-revved due to excessive load from a lower gear at high speed.

The OP should at least do an initial compression test. It wouldn't hurt to have the valves checked for peace of mind. IIRC, "Billman" from s2ki.com mentioned that the '04 and later valve retainers from the F22C were more prone to failure after damage from over-revving than than the '00-03 F20C valve retainers due to the differences in material used by Honda.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRbroham &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

IIRC, "Billman" from s2ki.com mentioned that the '04 and later valve retainers from the F22C were more prone to failure after damage from over-revving than than the '00-03 F20C valve retainers due to the differences in material used by Honda. </TD></TR></TABLE>

boo ya! ap1 ftmfw!

where are you santos?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRbroham &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Doesn't doesn't do **** when the engine is over-revved due to excessive load from a lower gear at high speed.

The OP should at least do an initial compression test. It wouldn't hurt to have the valves checked for peace of mind. IIRC, "Billman" from s2ki.com mentioned that the '04 and later valve retainers from the F22C were more prone to failure after damage from over-revving than than the '00-03 F20C valve retainers due to the differences in material used by Honda. </TD></TR></TABLE>

whats the difference in the material, I remember Bill telling me this but I forget exactly what the change was.

 

I apologize fellas for the misinformation.

"Billman" from s2ki.com mentions that when a F20C is over-reved cracks will develop in the retainers and problem won't arise right away. IOW, the engine will run normal and, unless you've had them inspected, you won't know till it drops a valve and then engine damage. He goes on to point out that when the F22C is over-revved the retainer will fail immediately and then engine damage.

Read more here: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/ind...&st=0

I don't give a damn what others say, this is why I like s2ki.com.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRbroham &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I apologize fellas for the misinformation.

"Billman" from s2ki.com mentions that when a F20C is over-reved cracks will develop in the retainers and problem won't arise right away. IOW, the engine will run normal and, unless you've had them inspected, you won't know till it drops a valve and then engine damage. He goes on to point out that when the F22C is over-revved the retainer will fail immediately and then engine damage.

Read more here: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/ind...&st=0

I don't give a damn what others say, this is why I like s2ki.com. </TD></TR></TABLE>

but what classifies as over rev for the ap2? i redline mine constantly, and many members have taken ap2's up to 9k no problem.

im assuming that a problem would arrise if something above 10k was to happen.

I agree though, s2ki has alot better tech information

 

True, a small fatigue crack won't be visible, and the cracks all start on the underside anyway. A more serious over-rev will show a slight drop of the valve stem in the retainer. If you see this and your engine still runs, you're lucky. Replace all the $2 retainers and give your car a nice wash and wax for not destroying your bank account.

On a major over-rev, you won't see the valve stem in the retainer at all. Get out your checkbook.

If I recall, the valves start to float just under 10K. The stress on the retainer goes up exponetially when the valve floats. Ti retainers raise the float limit by reducing the the valvetrain mass, but they are not as strong as the steel retainers, so like any race part, they need relatively frequent inspection and replacement.

Remember that the retainer is a wear item, a part that will fatigue with stress. The more stress you put on it, the faster it will fail. If you spend a lot of time at high rpm, I would check your retainers a couple times a year, and maybe replace them every 2-3 years (also not a bad thing to do during an overhaul or installing a used engine). If you miss a shift badly, I'd change them immediately. A less stressed engine may have it's retainers last indefinately.

I'd also change out the tranny and diff fluid. It's not expensive and easy to do.

ITRbroham's link is the definative thread on the subject. Thanks.

 

will have the S at honda later this week to have the compression checked and the valvetrain ..will let you guys know what was found ....

 

*UPDATE*

Got my s back from honda this morning. Good news, Valves good , Retainers good not cracked, everything in the valvetrain was good. the compression test was good also, the valves didnt even need to be adjusted . so i guess after reading about what most of you all said , i consider myself lucky. so thanks to everyone who gave the info and their opinions on what i should do, because i probably wouldnt have even had it checked because the car seemed and ran fine .....

 

Don't worry so much about your S2000, it's a Honda, they are a racing company; it's not a toy.
I've done that myself on the track more than once, as I let the clutch out when i mean to go from third to four but go into second, or if I go from 6th to 2nd instead of into 4th, before the cluthch is out, I'm attentive to any major change of high rev sound immediately and am then able to make corrctions before I have totally committed to the action. So, train yourself to listen to the engine as you shift or rather at all times.

 

Over Rev = Cracked Valve Spring Retainers. Next time you do any headwork (thats if you ever get in there), please replace them vecause these can go with ease

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jmcfall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> So, train yourself to listen to the engine as you shift or rather at all times. </TD></TR></TABLE>

very good point you bring up...

dont just do the actions, u have to also be aware...

Also its a matter of bad driving habits as well.. i see it time and time again in the matter of how people go about shifting.. no need to put your body into it or using it to pull...
your tranny has a given pattern in which the following gear or previous gear follows.
you can just simply rest your hand on the **** and just go in the direction of the gear you going to and it will fall into place....

no need to overdue the motions....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ReddotsS2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">rev limmiter?</TD></TR></TABLE> the rev limiter is not smart enough to put in the clutch becuase ur doing 4thgear speeds in 2nd therefor ever-revving caused by transmission, action to stop it=put in clutch

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRbroham &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"Billman" from s2ki.com mentions that when a F20C is over-reved cracks will develop in the retainers and problem won't arise right away. IOW, the engine will run normal and, unless you've had them inspected, you won't know till it drops a valve and then engine damage. He goes on to point out that when the F22C is over-revved the retainer will fail immediately and then engine damage. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I could swear I remember reading the complete OPPOSITE of this. I'm pretty damn sure 04+ retainers are heavier/stronger than 00-03.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spectacle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I could swear I remember reading the complete OPPOSITE of this. I'm pretty damn sure 04+ retainers are heavier/stronger than 00-03.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, you probably read correctly. If I'm also reading correctly the retainers fail in completely different ways between the F20C and F22C engines.