k24 a little weak?
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k24 a little weak?
I'm thinking of doing a k24/k20a2 project in the future cause a 2.4 liter should = fun.
Recently I checked dyno sheets on similar setups. Is it normal that I only see weak numbers? I've seen alot of max 150whp, 160whp, and even 140whp...if thats what that setup is capable of, I'll best keep my b20vtec.
I'm not talking about the tq here, just the whp. It seems from all the dyno charts I've seen, that if you want over 200whp, you have to drop alot of cash in other parts. I would have though 180-200whp would have been relatively easy to get out of a honda 2.4L
Recently I checked dyno sheets on similar setups. Is it normal that I only see weak numbers? I've seen alot of max 150whp, 160whp, and even 140whp...if thats what that setup is capable of, I'll best keep my b20vtec.
I'm not talking about the tq here, just the whp. It seems from all the dyno charts I've seen, that if you want over 200whp, you have to drop alot of cash in other parts. I would have though 180-200whp would have been relatively easy to get out of a honda 2.4L
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My project will be with a CRV k24 because I eventually want to turbo it so no use on spending extra cash on the tsx one because: CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG but, I read the only differences between both is the compression ratio. Maybe I'd like the tsx tranny tho so I may end up buying the tsx one if its not that expensive compared to the crv one.
But still, the crv k24 is lower cr but damn....those numbers are still weak. My low compression b20vtec running on 87 octan have higher numbers than that. Wtf
But still, the crv k24 is lower cr but damn....those numbers are still weak. My low compression b20vtec running on 87 octan have higher numbers than that. Wtf
FSAE
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From: Drinking Beer, UT
Re: (Newschooler)
No.
The TSX K24 has VTEC on both intake and exhaust camshafts. The TSX head is almost identical to the RSX-S heads.
With a handful of boltons a stock TSX block is good for 250whp.
K24a2
Stock Block
IPS K2 Stroker Cams with Eibach valvtrain
TWM 52mm ITB's
SSR Header
Tunded with Kpro
The TSX K24 has VTEC on both intake and exhaust camshafts. The TSX head is almost identical to the RSX-S heads.
With a handful of boltons a stock TSX block is good for 250whp.
K24a2
Stock Block
IPS K2 Stroker Cams with Eibach valvtrain
TWM 52mm ITB's
SSR Header
Tunded with Kpro
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Tampa
Re: (TunerN00b)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ITBs and cams are "boltons" now? An engine with aftermarket cams is "stock"?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its still a stock block.
Its still a stock block.
FSAE
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Drinking Beer, UT
Re: (TunerN00b)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ITBs and cams are "boltons" now? An engine with aftermarket cams is "stock"?</TD></TR></TABLE>
What is the difference between unbolting an exhaust manifold and unbolting an intake manifold? Doesn't require machining or special tools. Boltons are anything that the typical owner can perform on their own with standard tools.
Quote me saying stock motor. I clearly state stock block twice.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onepoint6i »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock block= unassembled short block
thats an awesome graph btw!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Simple build. Very repeatable.
Owner has ran 12.0-12.2's consistantly @ 110-111mph in a full weight EG hatch.
What is the difference between unbolting an exhaust manifold and unbolting an intake manifold? Doesn't require machining or special tools. Boltons are anything that the typical owner can perform on their own with standard tools.
Quote me saying stock motor. I clearly state stock block twice.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onepoint6i »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock block= unassembled short block
thats an awesome graph btw!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Simple build. Very repeatable.Owner has ran 12.0-12.2's consistantly @ 110-111mph in a full weight EG hatch.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
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Ok thx for the replies guys. I'll clear things out:
My project is a k20a2 + k24 block (probably crv or accord, the cheapest). The block will be built for FI application so the original compression ratio doesn't botter, thats why I won't be getting a tsx k24 unless its cheaper to get a complete tsx engine instead of a k20a2 head AND the k24 cheap block.
But back to my original question: The dyno graph I saw are obviously from low cr K24's but still, I think something is wrong when you get 150whp from a 2.4L ivtec when I get more from a 2.0L b20bvtec with around 8.7 cr.
Unless the cr in those low cr K24's is like 8.2 or something this is kinda weird if you ask me....
My project is a k20a2 + k24 block (probably crv or accord, the cheapest). The block will be built for FI application so the original compression ratio doesn't botter, thats why I won't be getting a tsx k24 unless its cheaper to get a complete tsx engine instead of a k20a2 head AND the k24 cheap block.
But back to my original question: The dyno graph I saw are obviously from low cr K24's but still, I think something is wrong when you get 150whp from a 2.4L ivtec when I get more from a 2.0L b20bvtec with around 8.7 cr.
Unless the cr in those low cr K24's is like 8.2 or something this is kinda weird if you ask me....
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From: la to the oc, ca
Re: (Newschooler)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Newschooler »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok thx for the replies guys. I'll clear things out:
My project is a k20a2 + k24 block (probably crv or accord, the cheapest). The block will be built for FI application so the original compression ratio doesn't botter, thats why I won't be getting a tsx k24 unless its cheaper to get a complete tsx engine instead of a k20a2 head AND the k24 cheap block.
But back to my original question: The dyno graph I saw are obviously from low cr K24's but still, I think something is wrong when you get 150whp from a 2.4L ivtec when I get more from a 2.0L b20bvtec with around 8.7 cr.
Unless the cr in those low cr K24's is like 8.2 or something this is kinda weird if you ask me....</TD></TR></TABLE>
dude the crv long blocks weren't made to achieve high HP numbers..just reliable, 4cyl torque power for the small SUV. now look at a mildly modded tsx longblock and see the difference. if that baffles you, i hope you have someone building this engine for you. also you're wanting to boost..then hopefully you've started a thread in the FI forum.
My project is a k20a2 + k24 block (probably crv or accord, the cheapest). The block will be built for FI application so the original compression ratio doesn't botter, thats why I won't be getting a tsx k24 unless its cheaper to get a complete tsx engine instead of a k20a2 head AND the k24 cheap block.
But back to my original question: The dyno graph I saw are obviously from low cr K24's but still, I think something is wrong when you get 150whp from a 2.4L ivtec when I get more from a 2.0L b20bvtec with around 8.7 cr.
Unless the cr in those low cr K24's is like 8.2 or something this is kinda weird if you ask me....</TD></TR></TABLE>
dude the crv long blocks weren't made to achieve high HP numbers..just reliable, 4cyl torque power for the small SUV. now look at a mildly modded tsx longblock and see the difference. if that baffles you, i hope you have someone building this engine for you. also you're wanting to boost..then hopefully you've started a thread in the FI forum.
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From: Tampa
Re: (ipodhustle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ipodhustle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude the crv long blocks weren't made to achieve high HP numbers..just reliable, 4cyl torque power for the small SUV. now look at a mildly modded tsx longblock and see the difference. if that baffles you, i hope you have someone building this engine for you. also you're wanting to boost..then hopefully you've started a thread in the FI forum.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The crv blocks can make very good power. Not to mention they are the only non-vtec k 24 that will work with the vtec head swap.
The crv blocks can make very good power. Not to mention they are the only non-vtec k 24 that will work with the vtec head swap.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
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Re: (ipodhustle)
You don't seem to understand. I'm talking about dyno graphs I saw for k20a2/k24 setup. I know about the k24 being a low rev reliable engine for a SUV, just as the b20b and b20z was. I know about the tsx k24 block potential (cause of higher cr and nothing else).
The thing is, the k24a1 and k24a4 should give some significant power once you slam the k20a2 head on them. I searched and found out they had a 9.7:1 and 9.6:1 cr which is not bad at all.
But still, according to those dyno graphs a b20bvtec with a 8.7 cr is giving more hp than a 2.4L 9.7:1 cr? Both got a vtec head, I'd like to understand that. Moreover, the tq wasn't THAT higher compared to a b20 even so it got 0,4 more liter which is huge.
I'd like to beleive those grahs are wrong but I've seen like 5 of them while searching.
The thing is, the k24a1 and k24a4 should give some significant power once you slam the k20a2 head on them. I searched and found out they had a 9.7:1 and 9.6:1 cr which is not bad at all.
But still, according to those dyno graphs a b20bvtec with a 8.7 cr is giving more hp than a 2.4L 9.7:1 cr? Both got a vtec head, I'd like to understand that. Moreover, the tq wasn't THAT higher compared to a b20 even so it got 0,4 more liter which is huge.
I'd like to beleive those grahs are wrong but I've seen like 5 of them while searching.
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From: Tampa
Re: (Newschooler)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Newschooler »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But still, according to those dyno graphs a b20bvtec with a 8.7 cr is giving more hp than a 2.4L 9.7:1 cr? Both got a vtec head, I'd like to understand that. Moreover, the tq wasn't THAT higher compared to a b20 even so it got 0,4 more liter which is huge.
I'd like to beleive those grahs are wrong but I've seen like 5 of them while searching.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The K24a1 doesnt have the traditional vtec system you are thinking about. Its crossover is extremely low. It is essentially just a 2.4L nonvtec engine.
But still, according to those dyno graphs a b20bvtec with a 8.7 cr is giving more hp than a 2.4L 9.7:1 cr? Both got a vtec head, I'd like to understand that. Moreover, the tq wasn't THAT higher compared to a b20 even so it got 0,4 more liter which is huge.
I'd like to beleive those grahs are wrong but I've seen like 5 of them while searching.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The K24a1 doesnt have the traditional vtec system you are thinking about. Its crossover is extremely low. It is essentially just a 2.4L nonvtec engine.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
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Re: (need a better name)
Aight
This one is only a k24 tho, no k20a2 head so I guess its normal.
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=297696
This one ain't normal for sure, k20a2/k24, the dyno sheet is at the bottom
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=297696
I can't find the others, must have found them on different forums. I realise tho, that most of them doesn't say WHICH K24 they use in their setup so I guess my post is kinda useless but still, the second one I posted, even if its a crv k24/k20a2, it doesn't seem normal.
This one is only a k24 tho, no k20a2 head so I guess its normal.
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=297696
This one ain't normal for sure, k20a2/k24, the dyno sheet is at the bottom
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=297696
I can't find the others, must have found them on different forums. I realise tho, that most of them doesn't say WHICH K24 they use in their setup so I guess my post is kinda useless but still, the second one I posted, even if its a crv k24/k20a2, it doesn't seem normal.
FSAE
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Drinking Beer, UT
Re: (Newschooler)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Newschooler »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This one ain't normal for sure, k20a2/k24, the dyno sheet is at the bottom
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=297696
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you read the thread, you would notice that 1) the motor isn't tuned on Kpro and 2) he does not have a header.
It is common knowledge in the K-series community that a good header like an SSR is good for ~20whp, especially important on a K24.
To put it in comparison, how much power would you expect a stock B20/VTEC to make on an OEM cast exhaust manifold and no tuning? 140whp? 150whp?
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=297696
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you read the thread, you would notice that 1) the motor isn't tuned on Kpro and 2) he does not have a header.
It is common knowledge in the K-series community that a good header like an SSR is good for ~20whp, especially important on a K24.
To put it in comparison, how much power would you expect a stock B20/VTEC to make on an OEM cast exhaust manifold and no tuning? 140whp? 150whp?
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From: Chicago, Illinois, USA
Ok now this is all making sense and yeah alot of these guys have made many good points to the OP, i like some of what im reading cause ive thought about that swap myself as well.
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From: NY
Re: (..Eric..)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ..Eric.. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The crv blocks can make very good power. Not to mention they are the only non-vtec k 24 that will work with the vtec head swap.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe i misunderstood but isnt a accord motor also a k24? and this motor can receive a head swap from what ive read from posts by nikos....
correct me if im wrong...
The crv blocks can make very good power. Not to mention they are the only non-vtec k 24 that will work with the vtec head swap.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe i misunderstood but isnt a accord motor also a k24? and this motor can receive a head swap from what ive read from posts by nikos....
correct me if im wrong...
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,131
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From: Tampa
Re: (SlepT ej6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SlepT ej6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe i misunderstood but isnt a accord motor also a k24? and this motor can receive a head swap from what ive read from posts by nikos....
correct me if im wrong... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Different K24's.
The only difference is the pistons IIRC. I believe Nikos's K24 block had cp pistons that allowed for the vtec head.
correct me if im wrong... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Different K24's.
The only difference is the pistons IIRC. I believe Nikos's K24 block had cp pistons that allowed for the vtec head.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
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Re: (92TypeR)
20whp from a lone header or from the whole exhaust package? If thats from a lone header, that is INSANE. You're usually happy to get more than 10whp out of a complete exaust line....on b series that is.
I heard also about the benefit of the Kpro but keep in mind I'm a newb at k series.
As for an untuned very stock b20vtec its going to put a maximum of 150whp probably. Still, this is 0,4L less and around 1.0 compression ration less and put out just as much as an untuned k20a2/k24 based on the dyno I posted. Don't you think its strange?
Tho I'm sure I have more than 150whp since I beat ITR's and does 14.5 on the quarter mile and ITR's put out around 165-175whp. And on top of that, I didn't saw ANY difference when I installed my DC header. I have the impression I was already at 170whp without the header. Then again, you're going to say that the b series doesn't respond as well as the k series to bolt ons
and I agree
I heard also about the benefit of the Kpro but keep in mind I'm a newb at k series.
As for an untuned very stock b20vtec its going to put a maximum of 150whp probably. Still, this is 0,4L less and around 1.0 compression ration less and put out just as much as an untuned k20a2/k24 based on the dyno I posted. Don't you think its strange?
Tho I'm sure I have more than 150whp since I beat ITR's and does 14.5 on the quarter mile and ITR's put out around 165-175whp. And on top of that, I didn't saw ANY difference when I installed my DC header. I have the impression I was already at 170whp without the header. Then again, you're going to say that the b series doesn't respond as well as the k series to bolt ons
and I agree