I hated Tony George messing up CART while back starting his stupid going around
in circle league and now I have to join him! I followed Honda in all their motorsports since the 80's from F-1 and down but I can't stand going so low to this, next to Nascar. Why don't they go backward and start making low tech pushrod motors for the good old boys, junk!
http://www.speedtv.com/auto/?lvl=3a&cat=19&id=1605

 

The IRL will also be racing at the Twin Ring Motegi in 2003. So it looks like CART is out of there.

Hopefully with some luck, Honda will build some of the new 3.5L engines for CART!?!?

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[Modified by StageOne, 8:54 AM 5/24/2002]

 

[QUOTE]....and down but I can't stand going so low to this, next to Nascar. Why don't they go backward and start making low tech pushrod motors for the good old boys, junk!


you are ******* clueless......that "good ole boy" NASCAR ride has more technology in its chassis than your ******* honda....

just a FYI.......you know where penske does all their shock development for CART?? thats right, in those dinosaur POS pushrod rides......Penske South(aka, stockcar facility) has far more in the name of R and D than the CART division ever will.

I dont know why I try, im sure im talking to a ******* wall here.......the only other person who would agree with me here is D, another circletrack ****.

 

Nope. Im with you as well. These fancy pants boys dont understand tried and true. They would rather watch a prototype engine with 2 hours on it blow up and bitch about rather than make a competative engine that can rn the race. Toss me a Bud.


[Modified by B-DIDDY, 9:53 AM 5/24/2002]

 

i wonder if Honda will follow Toyota's lead and start getting into NASCAR?

yshi - who just goes hrm.........

 

hehe... well, i can't agree with you 100%, but, cup sure as hell does build a ton of motors, and run em on the dyno a million times... however, i don't believe they use their data to the fullest..... not many nascar teams (there is some) have actual engineers solving problems and modeling their setups. F1 this is pretty standard, a HUGE team of engineers... shrug... dunno... cup is prolly gonna be spinning 10k real soon, and that's close to the same league in F1 in terms of mean piston speed. definatly lots of technology in nascar, but DEFINATLY a lot of the 'good old boy' idealogy.

D


[Modified by D, 11:04 AM 5/24/2002]

 

well i can't prove nor disprove any of this info nor do i really care to.
all i know is i make it a point to watch sears point and watkins glen every year(even after NASCAR had both tracks butchered) just so i can witness the few Trans-AM or ALMS drivers they bring in open up a can of whoop-*** on the nascar regulars. this usually happens for about the first 15 laps or so until the car blows up because it wasn't meant to be driven like the actually road racers drive.

 

i agree somewhat, but tearing up equipment never wins races, no matter what the series.

if guys like Boris Said would drive within the realm of the car he is piloting (which is still a full bodied stock car afterall), as opposed to his ability.....he would finish very well in the Nascar races he attends.




[Modified by Johnny Tran, 11:23 AM 5/24/2002]

 

i know that honda left CART for a lack of confindence in it's governing/ruleing body, but they said that they couldn't bring out the n/a 3.5 bt 2003 as it takes two years to design produce and test a new race engine...........now there entering the IRL w/ the new 3.5???? doesn't make much sence to me but.........oh and the honda-nascar thing..will never happen. i think the IRl this the closest thing to circle track/american racing they want to get to.

 

[QUOTE] i agree somewhat, but tearing up equipment never wins races, no matter what the series.

if guys like Boris Said would drive within the realm of the car he is piloting (which is still a full bodied stock car afterall), as opposed to his ability.....he would finish very well in the Nascar races he attends. [QUOTE]

this i don't agree with. why can't a car be provided that has the ability to finish a 2 hour race driven at 10 10ths?

every other race series that races full bodies stock cars (speed world cup, trans-am, ALMS GT-2, etc. etc.) can provide this.




[Modified by lanceh, 11:54 AM 5/24/2002]

 

Its called adapting. The drivers they bring in have to adapt to the car they are in or it blows. Just like if Gordon or Dale Jr went to F1. You have to learn a cars limits in order to place in a race. Thats part of what racing is. Takign what is provided to you and making it work while still finishing.

 

the car blowing up is not a limit of the car it's a limit of the engineering put into the car. like i said before there are a ton of series with a lot less expertise, money and time that can do this.

so that fact that it keeps happening in NASCAR shows it a problem with NASCAR and not borris. borris drives trans-am and speed cup on a regular basis with the same technique and those cars come home every race. he should be provided with a car of the same ability in NASCAR. and especially in NASCAR which is the pinical of racing in the US. it has the most fan support, most engineering knoweldge and most importantly the most money.

 

The reason why they can enter the IRL so quickly is because they are teaming with Illmor as technical partner. Much like Mercedes does in their F1 and previous Cart efforts. Eventually they may even reenter Cart with a higher reving version of the 3.5 V8. And why does it suck that they are entering the IRL? Like the saying goes "any publicity is good publicity." Just imagine Honda at Indy, the biggest race in the US.


[Modified by HONDAF1, 11:47 AM 5/24/2002]

 

HAHA Not anymore!!!!! Im sure the Daytona 500 is bigger and even then The Coca-Cola 600 which runs on the same day but at a different time has a couple million more viewers.

 

yep, unfortunately you're right. and there is only one person on the planet to blame for that and his name is Tony George.

 

Just imagine Honda at Indy, the biggest race in the US.


Honda did race in the Indy 500 in 94 (didn't qualify for race) and 95. Bobby Rahal dumped them in 94 because he couldn't put the Honda in the field in qualification and the next year Honda was in. Of course Honda went on to dominate the Cart series after Tony George royally screwed **** up and they weren't racing at Indy anymore. Honda will dominate the IRL. Just a matter of time.

 

Actually in 94 Scott Goodyear would have won Indy in a Honda if he would not have past the pace car at the end of the race.

 

'

You are correct but that was in 1995. Goodyear came in dead last in the 1994 Indy 500 in a Lola/Ford.

 

tell me about it. i remember that day like it was yesterday. it was the LCI sponsored car.

 

My bad. Corection. Goodyear started last in 1994 and came in 30th place

 

yep. JV went on to win the race that year, from 2 laps down, and the CART championship

 

yep. JV went on to win the race that year, from 2 laps down, and the CART championship [/QUOTE]

JV was incredible that race. Indy 1995 lives in a distant and sad memory. No more turbo and Tony Geroge's ego exploded.

 

Are you confusing chassis technology with chassis R & D? The NASSCAR chassis is modeled off of a 1970's Ford chassis. I don't think that's the ultimate in chassis engineering. Same fgoes for the carbed pushrod engine. Sure, they've tweaked the crap out of it, but setup a DOHC 32v motor with the same nasscar motor guidelines and it would be lapping the field.

The only thing nasscar does is tweak the **** out of older technology. That's the only thing they can do. My bets is that a 1993 era Lumina, given the same tweaks applied to todays car, could still sit on pole. A 1993 CART Renyard, given the same engine as today, would probably not even be close to the back of the CART field.

Shock technology is going to be good in nasscar, but that's a given to keep those 3400 lb beasts from running off the track at 200mph. And springrates aren't nearly as high as I thought they would be, because downforce keeps the car planted in the ovals.

nasscar just goes to prove that you can make any pos fast given buckets-full of money.

 

Where's the Stock in NASCAR? The engines are tweaked to F1 & CART hp levels. The only thing close to stock is the shell.

Personally, the Speedvision Cup races are much more exciting than either of the boring oval circuits or F1. Touring cars are close to what you can buy for the street, and have standing starts and no fuel stops like real life. Handling, acceleration, and braking are all involved, as is contact. As close to real life road rage bumper cars as you can get, but they don't get ticketed or arrested!

 

The reason Nascar teams don't employ many engineers is because there is no need. The teams are not really allowed to "Invent" new parts. Nor can they seriously modify ANYTHING. Engineers deal with designing things in theory and then moving it into production after some RD. As there are not really anything to design in Nascar they use their motor and Chasis guys (whom have YEARS and YEARS) of real world application) to tweak. Look at F1 plenty of things the Engineers come up with suck. The Jag R3 for example. The Engineers interpeted the wind tunnel data wrong and designed a chasis worse than last year. And thats certianly not because FoMoCo can't afford the best!

Edit: I heard recently that theres a good chance Honda will stick with CART now that they have finnaly decided on a friggin engine formula, and is similar to IRL...so some costs associated with competeing in both could be shared to a degree


[Modified by EagleR, 9:56 AM 5/25/2002]