I have been noticing a lot of posts recently about Spoon products and how they simply sell existing products with rather silly markups. Examples include silicone radiator hoses (Samco), calipers (Nissin), 'Spoon transmissions' (Honda - though at least these are not marked up much), seats (Vision?), and, the piece de resistance, the $50 magnetic drain plug (probably Pep Boys).

I know that other companies outsource particular items - for example, Mugen MF-10s are probably made by Volk, and Mugen Lowdows are made by Showa, but at least these are unique items made to Mugen's specifications with an associated R&D cost, not repackaged items with eye-popping markups.

Am I missing something?

 

What about their hoods and front chin spoiler?

 

No, you're not missing anything.

I hope Spoon ****** know that they're not spending their money efficiently.

All the JDM riceboys want Spoon so they can be cool and JDM.

 

mugen steering wheel = momo
just slap on mugen logo's and a nice little centre mugen logo

but so freaken $$$$$$

 

spoon sw388 = desmond regamaster evo's with black paint and the Spoon name

 

Spoon suspension (Showa) and brake calipers (Nissin) are made to Spoon's specifications. Not a common a piece that can be found with another name on it.


[Modified by Wai, 1:31 PM 5/23/2002]

 

This is common in other industries as well. In the consumer electronics business you have the same rebadging of products, but it is ten times worse. Do your homework, find out who's pieces these manufacturers are buying their stuff from and go to the source to save some money.

 

this is not uncommon. Its much cheaper to buy products and put your name on them than to do the R&D yorself. Not to mention the build cost. Usually if a manuf has the market locked up good, most companies will contract out with them. I know that alot of Mugen stuff is in house. I think they own and produce their own wheels. And i thought Spoon came up with the SW design but Rega stole or bought it from them...

 

Exactly! SW's are not Spoon only, get a set of regamaster's and anodize the thangs. they weigh in identicly and look exactly the same, i like gunmetal anyway...

 

I think most companies outsource for their products. It is just the right thing to do business wise if the product can be made cheaper/more efficienctly. Havn't any of you taken an economics or a marketing class.

 

Spoons headers = Maxim Works ...built to spoons spec's Oh yea Vision= Maxim Works... . .Big Subaru tuner in Japan

 

Yes, but in the import parts market, where you have consumers that often know a lot about a particular product, this strategy can backfire if applied cynically, e.g., $50 for a $2 drain plug; $500 for $100 silicione radiator hoses.

Spoon are trading on their reputation - however, this sort of behaviour could destroy it.

 

Seems to me that they are doing really well, especially since they dont make anything for the North American market and their rebadged products are so hot over here that some of us are paying a premium over Spoons suggested retail price.

 

MAXIM

I once saw a dyno plot of their 4-2-1 header and the guy's ITR had 15 hp gain in the mid range. Peak only gained 6 or so.

 

Any product you buy from any race team is most likely made to their specs by another company. That's how they pay for their costs. Doesn't mean the product is any worse... Spoon's R&D is behind all of their performance products.

And here's a fun fact for you... Sony has the patents on compact disks and the lasers to read them. No matter whose CD player you buy, Sony makes the important bits.

 

Spoons big secret is that their factory actually manufacters stickers, badges patches and boxes to put on and aroung all the parts they sell us...

 

Man, you guys don't even know how much R&D it takes to make 25hp out of 3 inches of vinyl. Come on!!!!

 

Jun also is Maxim Works. Basically 90% of the wheels are made by Rays, OZ Italia, Enkei. Rega makes wheels for Monstersports too which are same as Spoon wheels except with there logo on it and gold in colour.
Showa made same struts for Spoon and Mugen only difference was the spring rates. Some of the newer ones are part of new design however. Most brake sys in Japan are made by Nissin, AP Racing, Alcon, or Brembo. Alot of the ECU's are made by Techtom, Apexi, or Mines for there out sourced ECU's with there named poped on it and spec to thats company liking. I don't remember who company was but there is place in Japan that makes all the tubing and parts and Mugen basically just put thems together. Vision uses alot of old spoon products like discontinued spoon hi flow cat..now a Vision item with just Vision name replacing the spoon logo on it. Denso and NGK makes all the plugs you see out there just with another name on it. Denso and Koito makes alot of the lenses interior items we all want. Most of clutches folks see are just relabled OS Giken and Orgua and AP racing clutches. Most seats in Japan tend to be made by Recaro of Japan or Momo of Japan or Bride. Most plug wires are Denso, NGK or Power Earth cables just renamed and spec'ed out. Alot of decals are handeled by certain company in Japan that does all the decals for Spoon, Mugen, Toda and Vision race cars or rally cars for Team Subaru. Most your turbos are all made by IHI, KKK, Garrnets. Good # of the air filters are made by Power Filters and K&N Filters.
As for oil plugs most of them are just OEM but spec out for certain companies specs. But alot spoon items like mugen items are OEM just been spec'ed out to that companies liking and maybe altered slightly by that said company. Spoon made alot of there money from there slight higher performance Spoon engines which were just OEM R engines with Spoon mods for about 10 or so extra HP and the engine from Spoon were cheaper compared buying it via Honda Dealer network.

Actually, I doubt Spoon cares if someone in the US or Europe buys there products because they have always serviced there home market over any other because that is market they want to be big in. If Spoon or Mugen wanted to come to the US they wouldn't even bother going through dealers or dist. they would actually send folks from Japan here to setup everything and it would be controlled from Japan like a many auto makers. Normally unless you know how many middle men take there cut out of the total price you get you'ed be amazed. Also say if your dist. and you get item from say Spoon and your pricing is around 15-20% below retail in Japan. Now once you figure in shipping which normally is by sea as it's cheap and slow as hell or by air which is top dollar and normally arrives within 2 weeks time frame...your looking at your shipping charges basically take most if not all and more of that wholesale pricing. Ok then customs normally charge you another 4-5% duty on top of that plus to get it through faster you need a broker which has min. fee plus surcharge to send it to your business and so on. But most don't realize either most companies in Japan now only accept Wire transfers or CC orders. CC's in Japan normally get 7% surcharge and Wire Transfer is normally 40 or more service charge and atleast 3% markup on exchange rate as well and some banks will charge even more if there not major branch and have to use another bank to send it off. This does not count that some folks by directly from companies themselves which means they get that VAT of extra 5% tax marked on everything in Japan. Also now in effect in Japan all wire transactions have 2,500-3,000 yen surcharge. This also effects most MO orders being sent to Japan which they only except US postal ones as any other will end up getting you surcharge of $50.00 or more. Now with all that said consider the person selling has to make money on the item to pay for overhead and shipping and also make profit.

Folks in the US tend to think you should be able to get everything cheap but to me thats the downfall because the cheaper it is usually means lower the quality is and rather pay more for better quality plain and simple. In Japan it doesn't tend bother folks as much as in the US to spend couple more dallors on there cars then in the US. But then again most Japanese will never own house as 1 acre of land in Japan normally goes for around 800k and what would be 80-100k house here would be 500k house there if you get good deal. Normal Apt's tend to run 2-3k per month and up depending on where you live. So avg joe in Japan is less likely to own that house unless he makes major bucks but he can atleast own his car and can spend whatever he or she wants to fix it up.

 

nice explanation

 

Racer-X> Folks in the US tend to think you should be able to get everything cheap but to me thats the downfall because the cheaper it is usually means lower the quality is and rather pay more for better quality plain and simple.

Believe me, I am fully sympathetic about quality issues. I have a shitload of Mugen stuff on my car so I am used to paying more. However, there is a big difference between:

A. Researching, designing and building a high-quality product and outsourcing its manufacture to a reputable company, and then charging a premium.

B. Doing NO design, research, or production of a product but simply reselling a product that another company has done all the R&D on with a set of 3"x8" decals and a 400% markup.

The latter betrays an extreme cynicism for its costumers.

 

Spoon makes RACE CARS plain and simple.

The crap that you can buy is made for their cars, to win races. If it fits your car, cool. They could care less. In Japan, consumers respect the tuners. In America, you bitch and price shop everywhere. Why do you think Spoon has been very reluctant to open up a business in the US, like JUN or HKS, ect? Too much of a hassle. Only one place that sells Spoon Direct, A&J in Canada.

Like some of the above posts, it's common practice to use other companies to make your products to your specifications. And much cheaper than buying the machines to pump out the products. They make extra money from the stuff they sell for their main goal....to win races. You need $$$ to win.

Go buy APC


edit>> norice:

Here is an example: The Spoon calipers are made by Nissin, YES. But you can't go to Nissin and buy the same calipers. They are Spoon designed and only sold by Spoon. Same as Mugen. Most of what they sell is made somewhere else. That is the nature of the game. Spoon doesn't even make their stickers. Someone else makes them for their race cars. They sell the extra to make $$$ to win races.

edit<<


[Modified by Trey, 4:49 PM 5/23/2002]

 

I think you missed the entire point of my post. A lot of the 'crap' that people buy from Spoon is made by other manufacturers for entirely different reasons and, beyond the 20 cent sticker in the box, has no relation to Spoon whatsoever.

If you think a $100 item is worth $500 because it went through Spoon's distribution warehouse, well ... I don't know what to say.

Never heard of them.




[Modified by norice, 1:51 PM 5/23/2002]

 

they make my day...dont they make the 4-2-1 headers and N1 exhaust?!?!?

 

drain plugs and thermostats aside spoon usually charges the same prices as thier suppliers..

vision mirrors, regamasters, etc..

you gay for buying into that hype anyhow!

ricey *** *****.

 

Actually when you compare say Spoon and Mugen both outsource products most R&D occurs on the track or in lab of out source company. Good # of items from Spoon and Mugen are just special made items from Honda for them to sell. As for price to go Spoon has always been cheaper then Mugen. Mugen because of there wealth in motorsports actually delay orders, make limited runs of items to drive up demand and ask top price for there items just because they know they can and folks in Japan will always lineup and buy there stuff even if it's not as good. Spoon on the other hand always tries to keep parts in stock and folks happy with them. They don't mind showing you around not like Mugen which they do show you around but very few and far between behind to scenes action. I don't believe Spoon would come here until they can make there parts here and make them CARB legal which costs major bucks and Spoon simply doesn't have enough to do that. Mugen could but instead they went to the UK because of less regulations and hassels and it was cheaper as all the dealers would support them. Though to do the same here in the US would take probably 3-4 times as much money and time if not more.

This is main reason I'm getting out of the business there is just too much hassel for very little money. The only time you make money if you can time which part or company will be popular that time of the yr..if so you make alot of cash if not your sitting with it. If I had around 1 or million to put into the business I would keep it up but running things on less then 100k a yr is not worth it to me..hell I really only started this back in the days for friends and I wanted to make enough to race some day.

To become a dist. you need 50k -75k normally to get the contract. Then normally have to move around 20-25k of said companies items every two months on avg. Plus, you need to advertise and so on and they need to approve of the ad's normally. So just to push one company you would need couple hundred grand atleast and if they fade away like fade your in trouble as you have nothing to fall back onto.