does anyone here go to the track?? ... if so, what preparations are needed?? ... what tire pressure on stock tires?? (i know, i should get slicks) ... need to bring extra oil?? (running mobile 1 tri-synthetic, with Valvoline synthetic oil treatment) ... any comments?? ... thx

GW

 

I've never been to the tracks but I'm also prepping my car for driver school on the 3rd of June @ Gingerman raceway. Anyway, I've already purchased front and rear brake pads, 15 inch wheels with Falken Azenis and need to get either motul 600 or super blue brake fluid. The brake pads are more aggressive than stock pads and the fluid will prevent from boiling. I don't know about the oil but it wouldn't hurt to bring some if you car burns oil like mine. Regarding tire pressure, I think you can ask someone that when you get there and just borrow someone's air tank...I'm sure somewhere will have one.

 

just wondering ... y 15 inch tires?? ... and will my brake fluid over heat?? ... and i have Hawk HP+ pads in the front ... shouldn't fade unless i really push them ... thx

GW

 

Smallest sized wheels are the best for track driving.. Rotational mass is key... I"ll add more later, im late for work...

 

there are varying schools on thought on this... if smallest was best, why isn't everyone running around on 14s?

 

yes i agree less rotational mass ... but does rotational mass have to do with rim size, or rim weight?? ... or both?? ... are you telling me a 17 inch, 15 lbs rim has more rotational mass than a 15 inch 20 lbs rim?? ... i know you said you would add more later, but just thought i'd throw this out at anyone who is reading ...

also, this is not something i can do to prepare for this wkend ... but thx

GW

 

The mass' distance from the rotational center also affects the rotational inertia equation.

With Hondas I think part of the problem is that they don't have the power to drive a wheel with a rotational mass farther from the rotational center. However, in 300+ ft-lb powered cars, this is a different matter.

 

hmm, the shop i goto runs an itr in the speedvision challenge series. yellow itr driven by nick vetucci (spelling?).

they run 17 racing hart cp35's with 225/40r17's. they say the old school thought was the 15's. now everyone runs the 17's with the different rules of the speedvision challenge series.
most of the top teams like real time run the 17's i believe.

 

The reason they run larger rims is because they are mandated to run a certain street tire in Speedvision Touring Car. Last few years it has been the Toyo T1-S. I'm not sure what it is this year... But my point is that they run street tires. Street tires of course are not as sticky and generally have softer sidewalls than R-compounds. So to compensate, the Speedvision teams run larger wheels so that they can have lower profile tires for better response while still maintaining near stock gear ratios with the overall wheel/tire diameter.

BTW, I dyno my car at a shop that runs the DuPont BMW team in Speedvision TC - ERT in Wilmington, DE.

Andrew

 

Here are the reason why I'm running 15 inch wheels.

1. Cheap tires
2. Cheap light wheels
3. 17 or 16 inch wheels that are light, I can't afford now

Chances are that your brake fluids will boil and at the end of the day your brakes will be mushy. Just take the safety precaution and put in motul 600, it's only another $11-13.

 

Well i go to the track often. So i would suggest

ATE Super Blue brake fluid, high boiling point. If not get Valvoline syn. Brake Fluid. The HONDA FLUID WILL FADE. so mess around and you will learn the hard way like i did. It only has a boiling point of 385. That is not going to cut it!
Bleed your brakes before you go!!
I used (and Laugh if you want to but these ******* worked) Performance Friction CM pads from AutoZone. 19.99. Thes pads grabbed just has hard as the Hawk hp pads i had. I have used them in 4 events and wore them to the core. took them back to auto zone and got another Set!!
Bringing extra oil is always good!
Tools and supplies to bleed your brakes
Rags!!
Tire pressure you will figure out once you get to the track. I think at Hallet, this track in Tulsa Okalhoma. I ran about 38 lbs and 40lbs on Motorsorts ranch in TX.
And water, you will need it!!
HAve fun fool and spin your car for me!!!

 

i understand what you're saying about the rule changes.

however, my point is that the teams like running the largers wheels and tire set-up compared to the 15's. with the tires mandated by speedvision.

just saying, since the above said 15's are the best.

the shop i goto prefers the 17's to the 15's.

they used to run225r45/15's before i believe. it was definitely a 225 on a 15inch tire.

 

thx buddy ... i'll look into that ...

GW

 

NO! You should not get slicks. Not until you have about a dozen track events under your belt. And you know and understand the limits of your car and your driving ability.

The biggest problem with slicks it either they grip or they don't. There's not much inbetween. At least with street tires they will 'talk' to you. When they start to really squel, you know your pushing their limits. If your running slicks, you won't know that your over their limit until your spinning in the road or worse, into a tire wall.

 

ah yes ... that is true ... you DO need to know your limits ... and you're right ... street tires do talk to you more than the slicks ... thx mrlegoman ...

how many laps (approx) does it take for stock brake fluid to overheat?? ... on a 2.25km track with 9 turns ... any ideas?? ... how many laps?? ... how much time?? ...

GW

 

If you're on stock RE92s, then I suggest ~44psi up front and ~38 rear. I've only done one HPDE, but I asked an instructor what pressures should be run. When I told him I autocross (and that I need to run 48psi up front), he said about 4 psi lower in the front. You might be able to lower the rears some more, I upped them to 38 from 34 at autocross. The reason I upped them is because on track I had a lot more room to push out when accelerating and it felt more balanced.
But like I said, I've only done one HPDE, so take it for what it's worth.

As for the wheels, larger wheels would handle better given street tires because then you have to use low-profile, stiffer sidewall tires. In addition, once you get up to speed, it takes less gas to maintain speed (again the rotational mass and distance from rotational center). You will also accelerate slower than with smaller wheels. On race tires, using a bigger wheel doesn't help because the tire is already designed to resist distortion, so the stiffer sidewall thing is moot. With race tires, the decision would be; do you want to save a little gas and accelerate slower, or burn a little more gas and accelerate faster.

 

FYI
Just remember that as your tires heat up, your pressure is going to go up! When the car is setting cold before an event, I run ~35-38psi depending on the tire and track condition. I do a warm-up lap or two to get the tires hot, then I gun it. After a session my tires are between 43-46psi. So be weary of filling them to 44 before an session as they will be up to 50psi during the session!

The wheel thing has been beaten to death.
Bsically, bigger wheel = bigger tire = more rubber on the road = better handling but slower acceleration + more rotational mass therefor harder breaking.
I'm actually looking at some 17" EVOs (stock wheels are 19lbs, so you have a lot of room to work with. Basically ANYTHING would be lighter). Just remember to upgrade your break pads!



[Modified by mrlegoman, 5:37 AM 5/24/2002]

 

i started this forum to get some advice on how to prepare for a track day ... and i got lots of good info ... but this somehow turned into a tire size pros/cons forum ... none-the-less, very infomative stuff ... thx everyone for participating ... i will bring an extra litre of oil ... and set my fronts to 35psi ... and my rears to 33psi ...

oh yah, one more thing ... i'm thinking of setting the left tires 1 to 1.5 psi higher than right side to make up for the weight of the driver (me, 180 lbs) ... any comments on that??

GW

 

I wouldn't bother with counting weight of the driver when setting your pressures. I realize the pressures I recommended seem a little high, but the RE92s are lousy tires and have soft sidewalls. If you're going with the pressures you listed, mark the sidewalls and see how much rollover you get. You may need to bring an air tank or one of those compressors that plug into the lighter thing.

 

ok ... i'll try a bit higher then ... but the max on my tires is 35 psi ... and i'm running BF Goodridge Radial T/A ... and you're right, tonnes of sidewall action when i'm pushing hard!!! ... i guess i can try a psi or two more ... not sure if i'll be able to see any replies b4 i head to the track, but i'm thinking ...

Front Left ... 37 psi
Front Right ... 35.5 psi
Rear Left ... 34.5 psi
Rear Right ... 33 psi

thx again for your help ...

GW

 

btw, BF Goodridge Radial T/A is like RE92 quality ... made for city driving

GW

 

On the track, chances are your going to have an instructor ride with you. An extra ~200 lbs to you car.
I wouldn't worry about 'dailing' in your tire pressure or the extra weight of the instructor, but more on you driving technique and 'being smooth'.
You can worry about the details come race day.