Ive got about 60k on my ls integra, and it runs strong with good compression. Ive been thinking about going turbo and try to put out 220-230 hp, and around 200 tq. I know you can make turbo reliable, but how relible is it when tracked on a road course? and daily driven? I'd like to hear opions of people that road race a turboed car and what kind of problems they have. Also whats the life expentacy of a turboed honda that is putting out the power stated above? that is daily driven and tracked about 14-17 times a year?

 

From what the tracked turbo people say on this board, the #1 thing to be careful of is your cooling. After that, as long as your tune is good, it's as reliable as anything else.

EDIT: Oh, and unless you are a serious baller, you won't make 14-17 races per year.

 

Being a guy that came from the boost side.. .

Typically you can expect to cut your engine's life by 30% by tracking and boosting a motor that was not intended for boost.. .This is a figure for people that just beat the living **** out of their cars.. .

Good tuning and meticulous maintenance can even the playing field to say 10%.. .

Reccomendations

#1) get a nice standalone and get it tuned.. . AEM EMS
#2) if you don't get a nice standalone - get a J & S Safegaurd
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/ > this will save your ***
#3)Make sure you engine cooling system is up to par.. .
#4) change your oil more frequently than normal
#5) change oil after every track day - all engines have blow by the rings, NA boosted engines will have more - the more gas and contaminants that pass through your piston rings - the more lubricity your oil looses
#6) if you haven't done so already, change your fuel filter out for a new honda one. These puppies more often than not cause a lot of us honda guys headaches and we don't even know what hit us.
#7) some will say this is not necessary, but if I was tracking a turbo Honda and my owners manual says I only have 4.0qrts of oil in the thing, I'd be getting a larger oil pan.. .an oil cooler might be suffice.. .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Being a guy that came from the boost side.. .

Typically you can expect to cut your engine's life by 30% by tracking and boosting a motor that was not intended for boost.. .This is a figure for people that just beat the living **** out of their cars.. .

Good tuning and meticulous maintenance can even the playing field to say 10%.. .

Reccomendations

#1) get a nice standalone and get it tuned.. . AEM EMS
#2) if you don't get a nice standalone - get a J & S Safegaurd
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/ &gt; this will save your ***
#3)Make sure you engine cooling system is up to par.. .
#4) change your oil more frequently than normal
#5) change oil after every track day - all engines have blow by the rings, NA boosted engines will have more - the more gas and contaminants that pass through your piston rings - the more lubricity your oil looses
#6) if you haven't done so already, change your fuel filter out for a new honda one. These puppies more often than not cause a lot of us honda guys headaches and we don't even know what hit us.
#7) some will say this is not necessary, but if I was tracking a turbo Honda and my owners manual says I only have 4.0qrts of oil in the thing, I'd be getting a larger oil pan.. .an oil cooler might be suffice.. .</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what I wanted to know, and I know I won't be able to track it that much, just an over estimate.
I'll be using the hondata s200 system, and I should be reciving a morso 5.5 qt pan soon. Thanks for opinons, made me much more confident into doing it.

 

UPS just came

 

there is more than what I said to be considered, but most of those things are pretty crucial.. .

more things to consider are

your turbo systems efficiency - what efficiency level am I boosting to? Analyzing this and staying within a turbos efficiency range will keep it from heating up so much. This will keep your intake temps down and will allow your turbo to live longer as well. ..

Your turbo systems ability to control boost - boost controllers help, but a properly sized, placed and quality waste-gate is crucial as well.

Fuel delivery, over doing it can actually hurt you. Circulating tons of gas through the lines heats up your fuel making it more likely that your car will misfire or pre detonate. Be mindful that an undersized diaphragm in a FPR will also heat gas as well. Kinda think about it this way, when you use a pressure washer, doesn’t the water get hotter when it leaves the nozzle? Car washes don’t provide hot water to wash your car unless you are in Beverly Hills or something.. .

 

just a straight ls motor, i dont see it being a problem as long as you have a good cooling system and an exelent tune. the LS head will force you to keep the revs down which will help alot. personally i wouldnt track a stock block turbo car much, its GONA break and are you ready for that?? sleeve it, do it right over build it and you wont have any problems... build it for about 200hp more than what you're gona run at the road course and you wont have any problems. one of my customers tracked his car several times with around 400hp/300tq on a fully built b16, the only issue he had was overheating, but fluidyne fixed that no problem. his car from what he told me was absolutly retarded on the track, easily the fastest thing coming out of the corners at any hpde he went to (the car was a mid-high 11 sec car at the 1/4 mile)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just a straight ls motor, i dont see it being a problem as long as you have a good cooling system and an exelent tune. the LS head will force you to keep the revs down which will help alot. personally i wouldnt track a stock block turbo car much, its GONA break and are you ready for that?? sleeve it, do it right over build it and you wont have any problems... build it for about 200hp more than what you're gona run at the road course and you wont have any problems. one of my customers tracked his car several times with around 400hp/300tq on a fully built b16, the only issue he had was overheating, but fluidyne fixed that no problem. his car from what he told me was absolutly retarded on the track, easily the fastest thing coming out of the corners at any hpde he went to (the car was a mid-high 11 sec car at the 1/4 mile)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well reason for wanting to track is bacause it oly has 60k miles, and i didn't wan't to waste the motor by just swapping in a b18c1, so i htought about turboing it to about 220-230 hp, and my goal is to make good usable power through out the entire powerband( if possible ) and make it very reliable while me still abusing it and tracking it. Does anybody else have some opinions on doing it with stock sleeves, bc i really don't want to open it up?

 

for normal street abuse and drag racing that wouldnt be a problem.. but the road course is a completly different animal.. i say do it and then if you wana keep it that way after it blows up sleeved and the whole 9... just know that its gona blow up... its just a matter of when

 

i agree its going at some point, but are we talking like a year down the road, say with 5 track days a year even?

 

that really depends... it could last a very long time or it could go at the first race. stock honda parts are very good, but they are easy to hurt and they dont last once they are hurt.

 

The advice of getting J&S safeguard is VERY good. One thing I noticed is that if you'll be sharing the car and/or doing driving changes, be careful right after you hot pit. When you pull out from pit your engine temps will be really high because there wasn't much air flow while you were in the pit so the heat is trapped under the hood. If you go to nail the throttle comming out of the pit without letting things cool down and you don't have J&S you may ping a lot until some air flows through and normalizes your under hood temps. If you're tuned conservatively this may not be a problem

 

The J&S safeguard is a well trusted, well engineered system that should be on A LOT more peoples want list.. . Hondata is not good enough to keep your engine from blowing.

Hell, I run a NA K20a2 at tracks and I wouldn't mind having it on my motor.. . I have a good tune, but you never know when something will go bad.. . I can't afford a new motor every year, can you???

One thing that sucks about the J&S is that it actually needs to be tuned to per your engine.. . Sometimes this is easy to set, sometimes it is not.. .

 

what i use is a series of cooling aids and an autronic standalone ems.

Cooling tips can be found by searching but heres a few that i use:

-oil cooler, a must have for the track, i have mine mounted in between the fmic and the radiator of a dc2
-run a thicker radiator pwr item. make sure u get a high pressure cap too
-run a low temp thermostat (spoon)
-run a low temp thermo fan switch
-have 10mm washers and run deeper bolts on the hood (u will be surprised but it really helps cooling of the whole engine bay)
-run a "race" tune that keeps temps lower in the cc
-water injection for anything above 12psi (for the straights normally, note that this is used sparingly as the weight of water reserviors is a no no)

Thats all I can think off for now, let me know if i missed anything

Also the ls is a good option because the motors are plentiful for stockers if u blow one

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by freakie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what i use is a series of cooling aids and an autronic standalone ems.

Cooling tips can be found by searching but heres a few that i use:

-oil cooler, a must have for the track, i have mine mounted in between the fmic and the radiator of a dc2
-run a thicker radiator pwr item. make sure u get a high pressure cap too
-run a low temp thermostat (spoon)
-run a low temp thermo fan switch
-have 10mm washers and run deeper bolts on the hood (u will be surprised but it really helps cooling of the whole engine bay)
-run a "race" tune that keeps temps lower in the cc
-water injection for anything above 12psi (for the straights normally, note that this is used sparingly as the weight of water reserviors is a no no)

Thats all I can think off for now, let me know if i missed anything

Also the ls is a good option because the motors are plentiful for stockers if u blow one </TD></TR></TABLE>
Did you make your own, or did you buy it? I'm interested into your setup, basically it probably won't be turboed probably until the end summer maybe, well see how the money is. But i want to do all the stuff first to get turbo prepped.
THis includes:
-new clutch(not sure what im going with)
-axles
-mishimoto radiator
-Have the baffelled morso oil pan, its the stock oil capcity one,(ordered the wrong one)
-install my s200
-look into getting the j and s safegard
-spoon engine mounts
-replace some gaskets that i need to now
-electric fans
-have the spoon high pressure cap
-spoon thermostat
-oil cooler?? maybe ill fab my own, interested into freakie's setup
I've also decided i don't want no more than 230 hp.

 

Found this oil cooler, by Mfactory, anyone have it? What are your thoughts on it?

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1659574

 

Sohc_me, I made my own "kit" up. Its not all that hard, I used initially an earls 19 row cooler core but have now gone to a 25 row core. What u really need is:

sandwich plate adaptor for the block fitting to screw 2 lines to, feed and return.

The actual lines them selves which is about 1.5 metres in length (each setup is different depending on where u mount the cooler core)

The fittings for the lines, i used 4 swivel 90degree speedflow fittings

some hardware store l brackets to mount the actual cooler core.

I dont use a thermostat, i dont believe they are that useful, a turbo car generates alot of heat, so taking heat out of the oil even for street driving is probably not a bad thing.

Hope that helps

 

isnt it safer to supercharge it.

 

I'd do a Centrifical charger like a Vortech but not a roots style like Jackson racing.. .

Boost can be more friendly with a supercharger though. More expensive to replace a supercharger though than a turbo.

If boosting moderately high, many centrifical superchargers have problems with lubrication and wear out quickly. Lubes are getting more advanced though and in this guys application, I don't see a big problem with lubrication.

 

ill look into the vortech supercharger

 

its no safer to supercharge than it is to turbo... for your car, around 250hp is where i'd keep it just so you dont wear the motor out so fast... a vortec charger is crappy in prettty much every way b/c you dont get full boost till redline, they dont really do much at all in the lower rpms.

the j&s is simply a bandaid for a shitty tune, and a good tune should be number 1 priority when doing any turbo project.

waterinjection is also a waste of time, more complexities, more **** to break and its just a bandaid for a crappy tune.

 

This prob should be moved to the FI thread,

but i have daily driven a ls turbo car for years no problems, for what kind of power your looking for a 16g or a little bigger is the turbo i would be looking at, as for fuel managment, find a local tuner and get it tuned on crome, cheap, and as good if not better then the other systems (esp) at the power lever, also keep the revs under 7k and it will last forever!

 

i don't want more than 230, and the only reason for desciding to going turbo, is bc i have 60k on the engine and i don't want to swap a b18c in it and go NA( which was my orginal plan) and just sell the ls motor, i want to use it since it has such low miles, and use it until it dies and hoping i can biuld this for under 2500. And my goal is to make usable power though out the power band.

 

you can prob find some greddy kit for around 1200

be perfect
Note: buy good **** used
not cheap **** new!

 

Data from a formula 3 engine, tuned on dyno with MoTeC and knock sensing headphones, Base timing map is retarded 2° to provide a safety margin.

Remember, when you set the timing for "no knock", you are tuning for the cylinder that knocks easiest, robbing power from the other cylinders.

J&S was then installed, and timing bumped 2°, 4° (not shown), then 6°, then higher octane fuel was used for the last run.

During all this testing, the dyno operator could not detect anything more than trace knock in his headphones, yet the J&S was keeping the weaker cylinders on the border of knock, letting all cylinders make more power.




Modified by John at J&S at 11:56 AM 2/22/2007 AAARRRGGG no image


Modified by John at J&S at 11:58 AM 2/22/2007