In reviewing the NASA CCR they show an X which is not really effective in getting out of the car unless you are Bo & Luke Duke. Can you swoop the bars down in the front to allow getting out feet first?

 

Not really sure what your exactly talking about.

Here is an example for ya. Something like this would do you very well!

I built these door bars for a fellow HC racer in Socal! It's an EG HB!

 

Got anymore pics of that EG HB? I got one too!

 

Sure. It's not my car though.

It's Rick Hohwart's fast H4 car!

 

Oh, I got Rick's site bookmarked:

http://rickhohwartracing.com/index.html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jettaboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In reviewing the NASA CCR they show an X which is not really effective in getting out of the car unless you are Bo & Luke Duke. Can you swoop the bars down in the front to allow getting out feet first? </TD></TR></TABLE>
It's not about ease of getting in or out.

It's about protection in a side collision.

NASCAR-style door bars (as shown above) are generally the best option. The X is more rigid, but does not offer as much side-impact protection.

 

i dont think the 'X' is legal on teh drivers side as per the 2007 CCR. correct me if i'm wrong.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont think the 'X' is legal on teh drivers side as per the 2007 CCR. correct me if i'm wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe it is legal as long as the stock door bars in place. In fact, I think only a bar along the floor of the driver side door with stock door bars is the minimalist that is legal.

 

Actually I try very hard to sway my customers away from NASCAR bars. They do a good job of keeping the Mazdas out but they don't do **** for energy dispersion. They are the first thing hit in an accident. They do not deform and the majority of the energy is transfered to you.

Plus they are not as strong as a straight tube in tension and compression. They are pre-bent thus already compromised.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NASCAR bars [...] are the first thing hit in an accident. They do not deform</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm pretty sure that's the point of them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerZook &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I believe it is legal as long as the stock door bars in place. In fact, I think only a bar along the floor of the driver side door with stock door bars is the minimalist that is legal. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe the NASA CCR now states that a minimum of 2 bars be on the driver side. (In addition to the stock door bars)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mcmmotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Got anymore pics of that EG HB? I got one too!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

NASA T&S guy telling you that I like your numbers

 

I don't want the door bars the first thing to hit in an accident. I would rather have something like a foam filled door or factory rocker box take the first hit and slow the force before it hits a relatively immovable object (door bars). It cuts down on the force transfered to me. Crush zones are a good thing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't want the door bars the first thing to hit in an accident. I would rather have something like a foam filled door or factory rocker box take the first hit and slow the force before it hits a relatively immovable object (door bars). It cuts down on the force transfered to me. Crush zones are a good thing. </TD></TR></TABLE>
There is no room for crush zones on the side of the car though.

Crush zones are great for the front and rear, and on the passenger side if it's strictly a competition vehicle (and without a navigator), but I personally don't want any side impacts intruding any further inboard than they have to. I don't like X door bars at all unless they're done in the style that .RJ had done with his H4 DC4 - which leaves more room between the driver and any intrusions.

You don't leave crumple zones between the roof and the halo bar or main hoop, so why do it with the driver's door bars?

Just to clarify, I don't think you're wrong; I just disagree.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't want the door bars the first thing to hit in an accident. I would rather have something like a foam filled door or factory rocker box take the first hit and slow the force before it hits a relatively immovable object (door bars). It cuts down on the force transfered to me. Crush zones are a good thing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't see how the force get's transfered to you unless the nascar bars colapse. I don't have the pic now, but there was mike lock's DA integra that got T-boned at the San Jose GP in '05. hit the passenger side X-bars. Not pretty.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerZook &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I don't see how the force get's transfered to you unless the nascar bars colapse. I don't have the pic now, but there was mike lock's DA integra that got T-boned at the San Jose GP in '05. hit the passenger side X-bars. Not pretty.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The more rigid the protection structure is, the more force gets transferred to the driver - the reason being that there is no crushing or deformation to absorb the impact.

Modern vehicles have crumple zones designed into their structures to absorb impact energy.

 

15.6.12 Door Bars / Side Impact Protection
At least one (1) door bar on driver side and one (1) on the passenger side must be used.
<U>At least two (2) door bars on the driver side and one (1) door bar on the passenger side
must be installed in all vehicles that obtain a new logbook after January 1 st , 2007. All vehicles, regardless of date of manufacture or date of logbook issuance will be
required to have at least two (2) door bars on the driver side and one (1) door bar on the
passenger side starting January 1 st , 2011.</U>Unless superseded by class rules, modifications to any non-chassis structure (such as
door panels, inner door sheet metal, windows, door internals, etc.) may be made to
accommodate any allowed door bar configuration. However, removal of material and /
or modifications is limited to 1) the least amount to accommodate the door bar(s), and 2)
can serve no other function. Holes in the door jam (B-pillar) may be permitted to
accommodate door bars; however the structure should not be “notched� so as to weaken
it.

An 'X' doesnt count as 2 bars because one bar will intersect the other and thus become 2 bars. you must have 2 bars from the b-pillar to the a-pillar.

2007 CCR----&gt; http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Modern vehicles have crumple zones designed into their structures to absorb impact energy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the few inches you have in the door is not a crumple zone.

the feet you have between the nose to the A-pillar and the C-pillar to the tail are crumple zones.

a negligible amount of force will be absorbed by foam in a door, g'luck though!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You don't leave crumple zones between the roof and the halo bar or main hoop, so why do it with the driver's door bars?</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

X bars in the doors count as 2 bars in both SCCA and NASA.

 

You need to look at how much force it would take to deform the rocker box until it hits the X bar. That is enough to really knock the edge off the force transfered to your body in a side impact.

Look at the BTCC cars. They actually fill the doors on those cars with a very dense foam to help keep deceleration reasonable.

As for the roof, your belts act to slow the force from at roll over. They will stretch and help lower the deceleration to your body. IN a side impact the body is heavily restrained by the seat side bolsters (in a true racing seat).

I have several of my customers that have been in side impacts with and without NASCAR bars and the feedback I get is most of them like the fact that the rocker boxes are the first thing hit. They felt the NASCAR door bars would have really beat them up.

I haven't looked it up yet but I would bet there is a SAE paper on driver protection in a racing environment.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You need to look at how much force it would take to deform the rocker box until it hits the X bar. That is enough to really knock the edge off the force transfered to your body in a side impact.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

What about when the car hits above the rocker panel. I have seen plenty of side impacts right in the door

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Look at the BTCC cars. They actually fill the doors on those cars with a very dense foam to help keep deceleration reasonable. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You have to remember that not just one element should be taken from an FIA car and put into a USA style cage. they work in very different ways.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As for the roof, your belts act to slow the force from at roll over. They will stretch and help lower the deceleration to your body. IN a side impact the body is heavily restrained by the seat side bolsters (in a true racing seat).
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats why you run an FIA seat. Which will absorber some of the impact too.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually I try very hard to sway my customers away from NASCAR bars. They do a good job of keeping the Mazdas out but they don't do **** for energy dispersion. They are the first thing hit in an accident. They do not deform and the majority of the energy is transfered to you.

Plus they are not as strong as a straight tube in tension and compression. They are pre-bent thus already compromised. </TD></TR></TABLE>

In a properly designed NASCAR door bar, the bends transfers the load to the rest of the cages. A single bend in the style of the NASCAR door bar doesn't comprised the strength that much. A dual bend or "S" bend is were the huge compromise in strength comes from.

You contradict your self in the above statement. you say "the bars don't deform." then you say "they are pre-bent thus already compromised."






none of the welds failed, that just deformation, from a 2 bar typical passenger side door bar. The hit was at about 50mph or so. If you flipped this setup and put it on the drivers side, the cage would have came into contact with the driver.

 

Here are mine, made by Mike Lock;

 

Only issue I see with those bars Iggy is that they don't bend out like real nascar bars. So, you have less area for the cage to deform before you contact it.
Curious, why you didn't have Mike bend them out into the doors?

 

Iggy and prkiller, could we see some pics of how the door bars attach to the main hoop area? I've seen a design by Mitch Piper out here on the East coast that I like, it kind of looks like you guys might be doing something similar.