Why does everyone here use stiffer spring rates on the rears of their honda's? What rates are you guys using for the street?

 

For the street, you don't want too high of a spring rate. Your ride quality will suffer, and your shocks may not be up to the challenge.

People are using higher rear spring rates to help the car handle better. BUT you must be aware that this is for track / autocross applications.

Personally, I hate the way my car drives on the steet. I have 450front 600 rear.
And I do NOT recommend this for the street.

 

what they said. more spring rate helps the rear rotate more aggressively. more or less like adding a bigger sway bar. BMW 3 series cars (thats all i can vouch for) come stock with higher spring rates in the rear, prolly to cope with the gobs of torque their motors produce and obsene weight shift as well as better handling feel. Alternatively, most full race cars and drivers prefer their cars to be more stable, and thus bring up the spring rates in the front to make them understeer at the limit.

 

For the street, understeer = good

For the street, oversteer = bad Just imagine ricers spinning out everywhere. Imagine people flying down freeway ramps, only to lift off the throttle & then spin right into a pole or other cars I'll always remember my idiot friend who took out his father's 911 & then spun into a telephone pole when he went into a turn too hot. He was lucky though, he only spent the remaining 6 months of high school in traction (broken legs) with his jaw wired shut.

I think Darwin might've intended us to have higher spring rates in the rear of FWD cars. Then, we'd have less idiots driving around

 

I really appreciate the replys. But technically speaking, what does it do for the car.

We obviously know that it handles better and is stiffer. I'm running 350's all the way around now and still notice a little bit of roll. I'm out to get another set of coil overs with different spring rates. I don't know if I should stick with 350's all the way around. How's 400 front and 500 rear sound with asr rear lower brace/sway bar?

 

it does a very similar thing to using a larger rear bar, but it does make your ride alot harsher and doesnt tear your sub-frame apart.
what do you use your car for? because all that rear bias in your proposed 400 500 with larger rear bar may make it more of a handful of a street car, but will be better for autoX. what you do with it realy determines what your setup should be

 

I think its 500f/550r on mine. Its the rear ones that really get you on ride quality. I think I'd be happier with 400/500. That'd be about ideal for what this car gets used for. Used to have 350/500 and felt a little soft.

 

My setup in mind is primarly for a daily driven but I'd want to also be competitive at the tracks on track days and autox (no drag). The car is a civic hatch and is gonna be low boosted on an ls motor. Some of you may think 400f/500r with asr brace kit maybe too harsh for street. What would you guys do for a solid suspension build?

 

what kind of shocks are you running btw? shock is if anything just as, or more important than what kind of spring rate your running. are they going to do the job? how bout just learning to adapt to the car and improving that thing behind the steering wheel? have you already tried messing with tire pressures? stiffen up the the shocks in the rear? how bout a performance alignment at a reputable alignment shop? all these things can make a difference if your looking for better handling.

 

I have agx adjustable shocks all the way around. I don't think presets 2,3 do anything for the front it's either 1 or 4 (all or nothing). I havn't really tried to fully stiffin the rear shocks. I did take it to a performance allignment shop and have em set the camber and toe, but I think it's too straight. Feels heavy steering most times.

Back to spring rates for autox/street. What do you guys use?

 

400 500... your shocks wont handle that at all...

i think thats a little too stiff for both especially if your on street tires...

whats wrong with running a setup like 400 450 (but your shocks wont even handle these rates)... that could be tolerable

 

agree with you on the agx fronts, i had some my accord, i ddint feel any difference in the middle settings. try the back shocks, just the twist of some *****, and its free. go try it, it works. that will effectively sitffen up the rear if they are still working. if that doesnt satisfy you, look into springs.

 

What shock setup are you track guys using? I've seen those ksports float around here. What's up with those?

 

i dont think any of these guys run ksports...

they have race valved or race konis
some other crazy shocks like penske, motons , ohlins and whatever is else is out there bilsteins

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think its 500f/550r on mine. Its the rear ones that really get you on ride quality. I think I'd be happier with 400/500. That'd be about ideal for what this car gets used for. Used to have 350/500 and felt a little soft. </TD></TR></TABLE>

still using the springs i sold you?

they were 450/550.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vietnameeh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they have race valved or race konis
some other crazy shocks like penske, motons , ohlins and whatever is else is out there bilsteins</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't forget TEIN.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mc-integra111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Don't forget TEIN.</TD></TR></TABLE>

nothing they sell really compares to the stuff listed above.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

nothing they sell really compares to the stuff listed above.</TD></TR></TABLE>

possibly, a good paired spring and shock combo is generally more satisfying and balanced than pairing your own stuff. with that said, if your serious, you'll be able to dial in your suspension just the way you and your car likes it with practically any set. on the miata forums, they have shock dynos for tein flex vs koni sports, revalved koni sports, s2000 shocks (everything you can think of), and the charts between konis and teins (flex atleast) have their +'s and -'s. there is no one winning combination in racing (atleast autox), the regional champions for miata class cars have running gear ranging from konis, to the simple and cheap agx's, to tokicos, etc.

moton, penske and advance design are kind of a different league altogether (very hiiiiigh end).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
they were 450/550.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No I sold the 450's here without ever using them. IIRC first had OTS 350-250 which, like you said, didn't ride as well as you would think it would. And I had to preload the crap out of the fronts to get a decent ride height. Maybe my konis are shortened? I dont know. It still bottomed a little on banked turns at this height, but it was decent handling. Then tried 350-500, better balance but much worse on the 710 freeway. And now 500-550 with a big rear bar. If I were to change them again I would go down to 400 on the fronts and try it, like what this guy is saying he wants.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gedupsound &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BMW 3 series cars (thats all i can vouch for) come stock with higher spring rates in the rear, prolly to cope with the gobs of torque their motors produce and obsene weight shift as well as better handling feel. </TD></TR></TABLE>

BMW 3 series (E36 at least) have higher rear rates, because the rear springs are located inboard on the control arms, increasing the lever arm force that compresses them. The actual wheel rate ends up being significatnly less than the spring rate. that rear suspension design is not coilspring over shock, like the front (and like our hondas), so the relationship between the front and rear spring rate cant be compared the same way like on our cars.

 

Stiffer rear springs will lower the rearward wieght transfer and will help keep the front tires planted and working better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stiffer rear springs will lower the rearward wieght transfer and will help keep the front tires planted and working better.</TD></TR></TABLE>

THANK YOU!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike-y &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

BMW 3 series (E36 at least) have higher rear rates, because the rear springs are located inboard on the control arms, increasing the lever arm force that compresses them. The actual wheel rate ends up being significatnly less than the spring rate. that rear suspension design is not coilspring over shock, like the front (and like our hondas), so the relationship between the front and rear spring rate cant be compared the same way like on our cars.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you know what...your absolutely right...i totally ignored that fact. who knew geometry was so important? but no, its one of those things i couldnt quite picture, and so when you see it on paper, you make your assumptions. And as such, after driving many a bimmer, you begin to get this sense of heavy stability, not snappy like an overdamped, over sway-bar'd, or oversprung rear suspension. that makes a lot more sense.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteener &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stiffer rear springs will lower the rearward wieght transfer and will help keep the front tires planted and working better.</TD></TR></TABLE>
In addition, more roll stiffness reduces suspension movement which minimizes the travel through the camber curve and keeps effective camber closer to the ideal angle.

 

for the hell of it, lets talk about relative downfalls of an oversprung, over swaybar'd rear suspensioned fwd car.