I finally got my car running right. I was having problems trying to get it running right for about 2 months. It turns out that the fuel damper on the stock rail was starving the injectors of fuel. Well here is the graph.


-95 Civic H/B Red

outside:

-16 Rota Slips (gun metal)
-205/40/16 tires
-new paint (Milano Red)
-carbon fiber hood
-vision carbon fiber mirrors
-CTR front lip (painted same color as car)

misc:

-power windows
-Si dash
-Broadway rearview
-GSR seats front and rear


suspension:

-Omni power coilovers (12k frt/ 10k rear)
-Energy suspension bushings
-new inner and outer tie rod ends
-new front wheel bearings
-Skunk 2 camber kit
-GSR front brakes

trans:

-B16 trans
-OEM Type R LSD
-ACT pressure plate
-ACT clutch disc
-Fidanza 8lb flywheel
-Energy suspension shifter bushings

engine:

-B18c1
- fresh 81.5 mm bore (0 miles to date)
-Cp 9:1 pistons
-Eagle rods
-Arp main studs
-Arp head studs
-Type R oil pump (new 0 miles to date)
-balanced and polished Type R crank
-new GSR water pump
-Endyn oil catch can

-B18c1 cyl head
-Pacific performance ported head
Rev std size stainless valves, new stem seals, new guides, 5 angle valve job, etc.
-CTR cams intake/exhaust

turbo system:

-Neukin ramhorn A/C manifold
-Neukin downpipe full 3 inch
-Neukin dumptube
-Tial 44mm wastegate
-Tial 50mm BOV
-Precision SC61 CHANGED TURBO to (brand new! T04R 67mm inducer .70 cover, 4inch inlet, ball-bearing center, P-trim .63 back, 4 bolt flange
-3 inch charge piping intercooler to TB
-2.5 inch turbo to intercooler
-30x11x3 bar and plate intercooler
- t-bolt clamps on all piping
-1000 cc Precision injectors
-Walbro 255
-Aeromotive 1:1 fpr
-full 3inch mandrel bent exhaust



http://videos.streetfire.net/C...7.htm


Modified by VtecCarHauler at 11:50 AM 1/1/2007

 

What exactly is the setup... Motor/Turbo/manifold etc ?

Are the wideband readings correct ?

 

Yes the wideband readings are correct, i also have a wideband in the car that gave the same readings.

-95 Civic H/B Red

outside:

-16 Rota Slips (gun metal)
-205/40/16 tires
-new paint (Milano Red)
-carbon fiber hood
-vision carbon fiber mirrors
-CTR front lip (painted same color as car)

misc:

-power windows
-Si dash
-Broadway rearview
-GSR seats front and rear


suspension:

-Omni power coilovers (12k frt/ 10k rear)
-Energy suspension bushings
-new inner and outer tie rod ends
-new front wheel bearings
-Skunk 2 camber kit
-GSR front brakes

trans:

-B16 trans
-OEM Type R LSD
-ACT pressure plate
-ACT clutch disc
-Fidanza 8lb flywheel
-Energy suspension shifter bushings

engine:

-B18c1
- fresh 81.5 mm bore (0 miles to date)
-Cp 9:1 pistons
-Eagle rods
-Arp main studs
-Arp head studs
-Type R oil pump (new 0 miles to date)
-balanced and polished Type R crank
-new GSR water pump
-Endyn oil catch can

-B18c1 cyl head
-Pacific performance ported head
Rev std size stainless valves, new stem seals, new guides, 5 angle valve job, etc.
-CTR cams intake/exhaust

turbo system:

-Neukin ramhorn A/C manifold
-Neukin downpipe full 3 inch
-Neukin dumptube
-Tial 44mm wastegate
-Tial 50mm BOV
-Precision SC61 CHANGED TURBO to (brand new! T04R 67mm inducer .70 cover, 4inch inlet, ball-bearing center, P-trim .63 back, 4 bolt flange
-3 inch charge piping intercooler to TB
-2.5 inch turbo to intercooler
-30x11x3 bar and plate intercooler
- t-bolt clamps on all piping
-1000 cc Precision injectors
-Walbro 255
-Aeromotive 1:1 fpr
-custom fuel rail feed (6 AN)
-full 3inch mandrel bent exhaust

 

Sounds like a nice setup.
From the looks of the a/f chart you need some tuning

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like a nice setup.
From the looks of the a/f chart you need some tuning </TD></TR></TABLE>

What size injectors? Looks like they may be going static. Or, you just have a shitty tune.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dunkd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What size injectors? Looks like they may be going static. Or, you just have a shitty tune.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think its his tune

 

somethings not right about that tune. a/fs are all over the place

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like a nice setup.
From the looks of the a/f chart you need some tuning </TD></TR></TABLE>

Look at his torque curve. I bet tuning the fuel any differently would result in minimal power gains. He is making less torque at 6500rpm at a 12:1 AFR than he is at the top of his rpm range at 10's AFR. Most likely he is simply experiencing boost creep on a small level(1-2psi) which is allowing the torque to remain flat which makes what I said less valid. But assuming that his boost is constant, then tuning fuel would make gains not worth talking about.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Look at his torque curve. I bet tuning the fuel any differently would result in minimal power gains. He is making less torque at 6500rpm at a 12:1 AFR than he is at the top of his rpm range at 10's AFR. Most likely he is simply experiencing boost creep on a small level(1-2psi) which is allowing the torque to remain flat which makes what I said less valid. But assuming that his boost is constant, then tuning fuel would make gains not worth talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>

huh? im sure hes seeing a good amount of boost at 5k and his a/fs are still high. and power gain or not 10:1 is too rich in boost, even for a conservative tune.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecCarHauler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I finally got my car running right. I was having problems trying to get it running right for about 2 months. It turns out that the fuel damper on the stock rail was starving the injectors of fuel. Well here is the graph.




http://videos.streetfire.net/C...7.htm</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well now you have another problem. You still don't have enough fuel before 6800 and way too much afterwards.

 

The end result is the tune is a piece of ****. But if it wasn't, then it wouldn't make a lick of difference if he tuned for 12's or 10's in the top end because he won't make much more than a few ft lbs of torque. The real story here is he most likely has boost creep on a smaller level and if he was tuned leaner, he would make more power making the boost creep evident. Its either that, or his ignition timing is completely fucked to hell which is resulting in the torque curve shown. Regardless its screwy and he should consult another tuner if he wants better results.

 

Guys check out his other thread about the fuel problem. It appears that before they couldn't get enough fuel and now after fixing the problem it is pegging rich once it switches to the hi cam maps. I'm sure the tune hasn't been adjusted for the him cam yet with the fix to his fuel system.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The end result is the tune is a piece of ****. But if it wasn't, then it wouldn't make a lick of difference if he tuned for 12's or 10's in the top end because he won't make much more than a few ft lbs of torque. The real story here is he most likely has boost creep on a smaller level and if he was tuned leaner, he would make more power making the boost creep evident. Its either that, or his ignition timing is completely fucked to hell which is resulting in the torque curve shown. Regardless its screwy and he should consult another tuner if he wants better results.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you dont make much sense, that IS the bad tune, that 12 or 10 or 13 makes all the difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Guys check out his other thread about the fuel problem. It appears that before they couldn't get enough fuel and now after fixing the problem it is pegging rich once it switches to the hi cam maps. I'm sure the tune hasn't been adjusted for the him cam yet with the fix to his fuel system. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Link?

 

Its always funny to me when people list that they have a "Type R" oil pump. Does everyone around here think the stupid Type R parts are soo special? The oil pump is identical on the R and the GSR. Therefore, its not a "Type R" oil pump.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its always funny to me when people list that they have a "Type R" oil pump. Does everyone around here think the stupid Type R parts are soo special? The oil pump is identical on the R and the GSR. Therefore, its not a "Type R" oil pump.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The obd-1 GSR oil pumps are different than the Type-R and obd-2 GSR pumps. So in any case he upgraded his pump. It shouldn't bug you enough to jack his thread, if you want to rant start your own.

 

Congrats on getting the car done.....but like everyone says get that map looked at or you're going to have more problems.

 

nice setup

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Link?</TD></TR></TABLE>
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1842250

 

Time to have the tune cleaned up, but I am glad you figured out the problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrdthry911 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you dont make much sense, that IS the bad tune, that 12 or 10 or 13 makes all the difference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, not at all. All you care about is your torque curve. A torque curve will be flat generally speaking. Is this torque curve flat? Yes. The whole point of leaning out the AFR is to make more torque and increase fuel economy. Well going under the assumption that boost pressure is infact constant, leaning out the AFR will not result in torque gains due to the fact the torque curve is already flat. This means the only thing that will change is the fuel economy. I doubt he is very worried about fuel economy with a 475whp vehicle. But I'm sure you know better somehow because your posts are very informative

 

Good #'s glad u got the problem fix!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like a nice setup.
From the looks of the a/f chart you need some tuning </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah my only problem was boost control. I was having problems getting the car to run a steady boost level. I am using a Hallman MBC to control the boost and the wastegate spring is a 9psi spring. I was going to get a Greddy Profec B or something like that but I have been hearing stories about them giving problems. I'll take any suggestions on a good boost controller. We tried leaning out wher it was rich and gained no power at all. The timing was at a total of 13 tdc. I should have waited to post the other graphs that showed better afr's across the board before I posted this to avoid the criticism (even though I welcome it). After we hit 474whp I decided to stop ther, then we went back and cleaned up the afr's from the vtec switch over to redline. The car runs fine to me as far as I can tell. Pulls super hard even though I never went past the begining of 4th. It's pretty scary to me being that I haven't driven a 400whp+ Honda on the streets before. I would actually like if the torque was a little lower or smoother when vtec comes in for traction purpose. The graphs does not do justice to how this set-up comes on, it really hits hard when it starts boosting. It will hook in 4th then break loose again before the middle of the gear. Will probably re dyno when I find a good boost controller.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No, not at all. All you care about is your torque curve. A torque curve will be flat generally speaking. Is this torque curve flat? Yes. The whole point of leaning out the AFR is to make more torque and increase fuel economy. Well going under the assumption that boost pressure is infact constant, leaning out the AFR will not result in torque gains due to the fact the torque curve is already flat. This means the only thing that will change is the fuel economy. I doubt he is very worried about fuel economy with a 475whp vehicle. But I'm sure you know better somehow because your posts are very informative </TD></TR></TABLE>


all YOU care about is the torque curve, but some things are more important than power production and the way your torque curve looks. running 10:1 is not healthy for a motor and im not talking gas mileage, even if hes not making any more power at 11.5:1-11.8 its better for the motor. noone cares about gas mileage under boost, its gonna suck no matter what, part throttle is where gas milage matters not these WOT dyno pulls. 13:1 is dangerously lean under boost conditions. and just because a torque curve is flat doesnt mean there is not power that can be gained. theres a lot more to a good tune than a flat torque curve.

he says he went back and cleaned up some of the a/f so lets hope everything is better now. if u have some pics of the newer pulls post them up here. glad to see it didnt leave the shop like this.

 

You really don't know what you are talking about. How is 10's AFR dangerous? Do you have any proof to back this statement? Also what makes 13:1 AFR dangerous? Can you explain how the gasoline content injected into the cylinders effects combustion and power production?

So far I've been ***** on with my predictions of what is going on with the car and why the torque curve looks the way it does. You should take this as a hint that I actually have a clue unlike yourself. I strongly suggest backing off on this one big guy.