As the post title indicates, has anyone tried this? I know it is a JDM only engine that was not released in the US, but after reading over the BAR guidelines, engine replacements only have to be functionally similar to the engine it replaces.

The DOHC is not a truck engine like the B20, so that wouldn't disqualify it, and functionally it is similar to an integra engine. As long as all smog and related devices were connected properly - is there any other reason it would be disqualified? The SOHC ZC is functionally exactly the same as an A6, and is used by engine shops as a direct replacement.

I'm trying to find out, as this swap is just so very inexpensive and worth looking at since i can reuse most of my D16A6 setup already.

On piece of confusing information I run into though is 88-91 DOHC ZC "Black Top". I beleive the only real counterpart is the USDM integra 87-89 Teg, if so, that would disqualify from use in a 91 CRX.

 

c'mon I know someone has more info on this. There has to be someone who has gotten close or tried maybe?

 

search homie its been covered it can only work on a civic or crx in the years of 89 and 88. and you have to prove its as good as a d16a1 meaning everything has to look identical.

 

The DOHC ZC "black top" is similar to the D16A1 in the 88-89 Integras. Definitely not the same exact engine, but close. Therefore, it would not work in a later year vehicle as the swap has to be same year or newer (or that's what I gathered from your post), and I would think that most educated smog techs would be able to point it out as a JDM only engine. Contact "thesmogman" on here, he'll let you know for sure.

 

Okay, see that's what I needed. I know that if you were to just use a SOHC ZC as a replacement for a D16A6 for example, most smog places wouldn't even notice the difference, basically engine for engine.

It would not necessarily go unnoticed at a BAR station. But still may pass as long as everything is hooked up exactly as the engine it replaced.

The thing I was stuck on was that there was no post about (and I did search) about someone actually trying to get on BAR Reffed in California. Most just said it was not possible.

And yes, since it is similar to the 88-89 Integras (similar enough using the A6 and SOHC ZC example) to fly. But yes I also ran into the problem of backdating since my car is a 91 and it would only seem to work on a 88-89 chassis.

But I kept reading that there is a 88-91 ZC DOHC Blacktop. And it was this later year version that I need to find out more about.

See technically, if it can be proven it is from a 91 production year and is not a true "backdate" it still may be possible to get one BAR'd.

The fact that an engine is JDM only isnt the real problem - the problem is that on a JDM only engine, there is no way to verify how or what smog equipment would be used.

But I think, that if I can somehow verify that the DOHC ZC is a later year production engine, and can follow the established smog device hookup as the A1 it just might work.

I just want to know, how far someone has already gone on this. If they have actually been told at the BAR station "no it cannot be done." Otherwise this is all speculation.

My basis is also this fact - some of you may recall a certain Speed Channel show where they took a Honda Element and swapped the head over to a RSX type S or typr R (i forgot, it was a while back) anyway they swapped the heads, added power and left all the emissions hooked up.

Big deal right? well it is, they did this head swap in Cali, at Autolink, with Clay, on a CA car. Now you all know, that we have been told on all the boards, that you CANNOT get a headswapped vehicle BAR approved in Cali. It's just not done. Well, they did it, and did specify at the end of the show - that the car was BAR Certified and SMOG LEGAL.

I don't want heresay, I don't want off the wall speculation, but if this can be done or if someone has been down this actual path, let me know. If not, I may be willing to try it.

And yes I will contact Smogman.

 

I've resisted posting due to not knowing of anybody that has gotten a ZC through the referee. There was a post which you may be able to find by searching (although the search engine doesn't like just two letters, like "ZC").

In regards to the common belief that you can't do a head swap (which I beleive is true that you can't), I asked my local Ref and his justification was that having to run the external oil lines, it is obvious to him that it was "different" and as such not allowable.

As for some show doing a K motor head swap; don't believe everything you see in print or on TV!! It drives me crazy when magazines state that a car (with California plates) is street legal!! Most of these cars do not see the street and if they did, a cop could throw the book at them.

Wes

 

Well since Clay is the one who did the actual swap, I'm actually gonna be asking him some more details on it.

You may be right, they may have tacked that disclaimer on to avoid litigation down the road.

Do you remember any search terms that would work that may get me more information, as you said, it doesn't like "ZC" alone.

 

Okay, thanks for the search tip Wes, I actually found the thread and posts you were talking about. And yes it seems very possible, but as mentioned only for the 88-89 chassis. Even if there is a production year of 91 on a DOHC ZC, there is no 91 equiv.

So it would seem I am back where I started. Wow this really does suck. Another attraction I had to the ZC, beside it being cheap, was the fact that it retained all the d parts, mainly the tranny, which from what I had been reading, seem to last quite a bit longer than the B series trannies.

Well there goes that experiment.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RSZero1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Even if there is a production year of 91 on a DOHC ZC, there is no 91 equiv.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's exactly what I found out about 5 years ago when I tried to get mine to be legitimate because one of my friend's, who is a smog tech, said they can be REF'd/BAR'd. But that was the catch, mine is a 91 engine in a 91 car, but since the last equivalent for the US stopped being produced in 89, they consider it an 89 motor. I was upset. Mine passes emissions without any help too.

 

There we go, a difinative answer from someone who did it. That was what i was looking for.

Okay so case closed.

 

Yup, that's what it comes down to. They CAN be legit in a car no newer than 1989. And even at that, it still comes down to the REFEREE letting it slide since it's not exactly the same as a 1st Gen Integra engine. Technically, you'd have to use the matching ECU on the swap, and mine barely passes with a PG7 ECU, but passes cleanly with a PM6 ECU from a 91 Si.

 

Do d16a1...i believe its just as powerful many interchangable parts... should be cheaper too...no one is really interested in those...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89efDUSTY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do d16a1...i believe its just as powerful many interchangable parts... should be cheaper too...no one is really interested in those...</TD></TR></TABLE>

?

Those don't bolt into anything though...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wiZCo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The DOHC ZC "black top" is similar to the D16A1 in the 88-89 Integras. </TD></TR></TABLE> I believe d16a1 is 86-89 and i do think you can swap from any of those years...anyone...verification?

 

1st Gen Integras use different motor mounts so it's not a straight swap. Also, the D16A1 is similiar, not the same as a JDM DOHC ZC. The blacktop DOHC ZC has a little more power to it. In any case, it makes no difference since it would still be an older motor going into a newer car which means illegal swap.

 

Yes the d16A1 is VERY similar to the DOHC ZC, but the motor mounts on the d16A1 make it an indirect (and probably a stupid) swap into a 2nd Gen CRX.

 

The main point of the thread was a) can you do a DOHC ZC legally and b) can you put a 91 DOHC ZC in a 91 crx/ef.

Answers:

a) Yes you can, but you have to work with the Ref and almost duplicate a D16A1 setup. 88-89 Legal yes.

b) No, even if production is 91, the US equivalent stopped in 89 and therefore not legal in 90-up.

 

ok look i know this is differentthan what you might be looking for but i am about to bar my ek with a b16a swap.... the ref told me that any japan or non us motor can be swapped... they run the vin off the engine to find out what year so in my case my engine is a 98 and car is a 97.... he said that the ecu has to be U.S. not JDM
and since the engine is a 98 it must have all smog compliance from a 98 vehicle and look basically stock... that means all vaccum, o2 censors, evap purge and canistor, etc in my case since i am running obd-2 but the only real stipulation is that it must be a newer engine and all smor compliance accessories must be from that same year or newer..................................
now in regards to your question from what he told me the engine must be NEWER than your vehicle... hope that helps ill post more after i get mine bar'd

 

The info you posted is correct, however the motor in question (DOHC ZC) does not have an exact US counterpart. That's where the difference is. The closest relative is the 89 integra. Read the rest and you'll understand why it's not as straightforward as swapping a B16 engine.