Did some search but only found some info for K-Series engine.

My new race regulation allow us to run dry sump for next year race in track/road race series.

Talk to a few local guys and they said that if regulation allows it and we do not run the dry sump we are loosing a lot of power compared to other race competitor.

I heard that the dry sump gives less windage drag hence improving engine transient respond dramatically and there is some sort of vacumm caused in the engine that gives better piston ring seals thus improving less ring leak + increase HP.

I don't know how true is this and have not really seen or worked on a car that has these dry sump on the B-Series engine.

Anyone can shed me more info and help??

I only found that Moroso had a complete dry sump system for the B18C5 engines and was told its a lot of money. Hence, i'm trying to budget and weigh the advantages to see if money will be well spend on dry sump system or should i just spend the money in building a better bottom end with better head package.

This is for a stock B18C5 engine with ported head + cams + other bolt ons + tune with Hondata.

Thanks.

Chris

 

You will be able to make a little more power with more reliability using a dry sump.The draw back is more weight (around 25#s).The belts can come off sometimes too (but rarly if its set up correctly).

 

total waste of $$ and time

IMHO

 

could you please elaborate why its a waste of time?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">total waste of $$ and time

IMHO</TD></TR></TABLE>

Jack please elaborate a little more. Are you saying a complete waste of time for a production car or just in general? Production cars I have no expierience with using a dry sump, but on tube chassis race cars well it seems to me the positives outweight the negatives.

I came from a background growing up with late model dirt trackers and outlaw cars and most recently SCCA GT1 cars. Every one of these cars I have come across had a dry sump system.

The benefits are you can have as much oil capacity as you want. Meaning you are not limited too the oil pan. You can build as big a tank as you want. As a secondary benefit to this, you can place this tank where ever you'd like. I'm thinking there is a reason most people place it in the rear of the car and to the right. Plus oil starvation is non-exsistant. As far as getting rid of excess oil around the crankshaft goes, yes and most people see a 10-15hp increase when switching from a wet to dry sump.

The main benefit though is being able to place the engine lower in the vehicle. This helps lower the center of gravity and can also give you more room to help improve the aero of the vehicle. This improves handling, braking and traction.

The negatives are cost, complexity (dual pumps and plumbing) and extra weight, but I would say the benefits outweigh those. I guess it's all a matter of opinion.

 

http://www.z10eng.com/ - give those guys a ring

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">total waste of $$ and time

IMHO</TD></TR></TABLE>

For the v8 crowd, dry sump systems run $3-5k. Its a lot of scratch that may be better spent elsewhere, depending on what your $$ budget is, use, and what the competition is doing. Could the $$ be better spent on datalogging ($1k and up), suspension (skys the limit), more power, dyno time?

 

I'd be interested in those with experience dry sump'n B series motors. In rally, the car is getting bounced around all over the place, and engine wear is extreme, though I've had no problems with my honda, I'd be interested in how to make the oiling system more robust.

 

Might be better off with a 1 stage pump just to evacuate air from the crank case. Most of the reverse rotation pumps on the market weren't designed for small Honda engines. There are some threads (archived) in the All Motor forum you might want to look at.

 

I would be interested to hear why Jack think drysump is a waste of meny too.

 

i'm trying to budget and weigh the advantages to see if money will be well spend on dry sump system or should i just spend the money in building a better bottom end with better head package.



HP gains from a "dry sump" will never eclipse those had by working the head and such.....

Other than being able to relocate the mass of the fluid, there are no other positives.

B-series oil starvation is NOT a problem.......H22 however, is a much different story.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...H22 however, is a much different story.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So Yack, what's the H22 solution? Accusump?

 

^^ ouch

 

Thats not oil starvation. Thats inverse cam technology.

 

Thanks for the input guys..

It is very hard for us to get info over my side as no one actually sells them here and most mechanics/shops will not teach or really tell advantages of dry sump. Those that knows about it normally does touring cars for the rich guys and big teams and we won't be able to afford to send my car to them.

I just found more info on dry sump in Circle Track Magazine and they seem to be really interesting and says it really good for performance.

Here's the link http://www.circletrack.com/tec..._pump/

But they all relating to US Sprint cars or the like. So I really don't know how it is going to fair in a small block Honda B-Series engine??

Hence, if anyone with any 1st hand experience on these dry sump setup on B-Series please give more input.

Thanks alot guys

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chris2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Hence, if anyone with any 1st hand experience on these dry sump setup on B-Series please give more input.

Thanks alot guys
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hit up DonF, who has installed alot of these on real road race cars.

 

Thanks. Will IM DonF now..

Guys, anyone else with more info??

 

being the budget minded guy that i am, why not just go with an accusump?

are you really going to spend the several thousand dollars just to gain a few hp?

 

Talk to DonF he knows his stuff and has experience with dry sump equipment

we run a dry sump system on our b series road race engine
benefits
improved clearance under oil pan for undertray
better oil control
better oil pressure control [adjustable relief and max pressure]
allow us to move weight from front right to left rear
increased oil capacity
ability to warm oil before starting engine

down side
initial cost
pump/belt drive alignment is time consuming
extra heat in car from pipes and tank
hp gains are relatively small considering cost
limited range of kits to fit b series due to engine rotation
high cost to repair after engine failure

 

If class rules allow it you can reverse the rotation of the engine to allow you a wider choice of pumps. Also applies to transmissions.

 

i noticed you guys mentioned that you can have the engine sit lower in the bay, this going to increase the angle of the axles even more for a lowered car. did you guys have to worry about premature wear on the cv joints?

 

Good question. Axles like an angle. You can probably find some info in the drag forum.