Hi All,

I toasted my JDM J1 cable tranny w/ LSD. It will cost more to rebuild it than to buy another one. The JDM J1 is very short like an ITR. It made 1st gear useless in my car (200whp), but 3rd and 4th pulled amazingly. I would gain rapidly on corvettes, mustangs, and cobras in the straights, and there was tons of power when exiting the turns.

So... Do I replace it with a cheap ys1 cable tranny? Is the gearing really that much taller? Will it make a big difference w/ 200 whp? Or do I spend the big bucks and buy an ITR tranny? Will it make that much of a difference?

EDIT: I run in SM2 and am looking at HU for HC. So I am not worried about how the tranny will affect classing.

TIA.


Modified by RPM_69 at 9:45 AM 12/18/2006

 

HU is no more.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HU is no more.</TD></TR></TABLE>

RIP HU

Take a look at the 2007 Honda Challende rulebook

ITR tranny is nice. I recommend it. Seems like some people might recommend a shorter FD and more people would also recommend an upgraded LSD... So, YMMV, see what price you can get if you part out the original ITR tranny parts too.

 

take it from someone that has been through cable trannies. go hydro. itr/diffed b16 is a good start. a 4.7 or 4.9 final drive would be even better.

 

Why are hydro better than cable? You mean convert the hydro to work w/ my cable, or convert my car to hydro?

Quaife said my LSD should work with an S1 or YS1. I almost like the idea of being able to use 1st and 2nd. Even in 3rd I can dial in understeer anytime I want w/ the throttle on exiting a turn. Is the shorter gearing really needed for 200whp in a 2000lb car? I just don't want to drop an extra grand if it is only a little better, but for a dramatically better car I'd do it.

Bummer on HU - I haven't kept up because it'll be another year or so before I go
W2W - just time trials for now.

 

whats wrong with another j1 or a jdm s1 same gear ratio and they can be had for fairly cheap? the only tranny that i dont think will work from cable is the jdm y1. i tried to get a y1 diff in my s1 and it was all bad

 

If you know where I can get a cheap, JDM J1 or JDM S1 let me know. I just haven't found one, and the gear sets from Gear Speed are $250 ea. So a rebuild would be at least a grand.

 

There are plenty of people running 200+ hp on ITR trannies successfully, there's no reason you couldn't. More power doesn't mean at all that you should have longer gearing. I don't know where you got that idea, but it's wrong.

Before I give you the help you're acutally looking for, I just have to ask: dial in understeer with the throttle? Why would you want to do that? I'm not even really sure what you're talking about.

Now, to actually be constructive For gearing that works for you, you want to look at the tracks you'll be running on. Then, if you're fast and consistent for YOUR car (not compared to other car, like 'Vettes, or Vipers, or whatever), take note of your speed at places where you'd be shifting. Write that information down if you have to in order to remember it. Then you take these transmission specs: http://hondaswap.com/reference...29132/
and plug in the ratios for whatever tranny to this gearing calculator: http://www.autocrossing.com/cgi-bin/gearcalc.cgi Find out what ratios give you the kind of speeds you'd need (for example, I exit T1/T2 of Summit Main at ~78-80mph. An ITR tranny would necessitate a shift into 4th gear well before the exit to accomplish that, so I stick with my GSR). If that's confusing, I'll reword it. It is a little late, and I've had a rough night

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RPM_69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why are hydro better than cable? You mean convert the hydro to work w/ my cable, or convert my car to hydro?

Quaife said my LSD should work with an S1 or YS1. I almost like the idea of being able to use 1st and 2nd. Even in 3rd I can dial in understeer anytime I want w/ the throttle on exiting a turn. Is the shorter gearing really needed for 200whp in a 2000lb car? I just don't want to drop an extra grand if it is only a little better, but for a dramatically better car I'd do it.

Bummer on HU - I haven't kept up because it'll be another year or so before I go
W2W - just time trials for now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

use a hydro trans with a hasport conversion. works mint. no more transmission headaches. its not better, its more reliable with petter parts avaliability. shorter is, for the most part, better. my 4.7 was a big improvement from my 4.4.

ys1 is the same as hydro b16/itr as far as ring gear and other gears. so yes, a quaife will work in there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are plenty of people running 200+ hp on ITR trannies successfully, there's no reason you couldn't. More power doesn't mean at all that you should have longer gearing. I don't know where you got that idea, but it's wrong. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I NEVER said an ITR couldn't handle 200whp. The question is more about will that shorter gearing be as much of an advantage with 200whp. I can currently spin tire right up through 3rd gear. Would the taller gearing, actually help me by allowing me to be at full throttle more often?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Before I give you the help you're acutally looking for, I just have to ask: dial in understeer with the throttle? Why would you want to do that? I'm not even really sure what you're talking about. </TD></TR></TABLE>
If I start to rotate too much on exit , then a little counter steer and extra throttle straighten it out every time. Sure I'll go wide, maybe even 2 off, but I wind up pointed straight. Maybe that's bad technique, but it saved me from a field trip a couple of times.

As for the the road course stuff. I was actually looking for a good online gear calculator to see the MPH I would be shifting at. There are some places like RD ATL turns 1 to 5 where a taller 3rd would be perfect, and other places like uphill after turns 10a &10b where it would completely suck.

So to word it differently. To those of you who have had taller and shorter b-trannys would you pay an extra $1000 for the shorter tranny? Does it simply change your shifting, or does it really make a difference in track times?

 

I don't see the taller gearing helping prevent wheelspin. My comment was only about the gearing, not reliability/strength. The K-series guys too run things like the nutty 5.0FD on a K-ITR tranny. Taller gearing just isn't as good, unless it's needed to keep you from running out of gear on exits.

If you have tracks where it could go one way or the other, think about which turns you can compromise more.

 

the 1st on a j1 is nearly identical to every other b-series. You talk about 1st gear being useless, but changing to a different b-series trans isnt going to help that.

 

A different final drive would though. BUT, if we're talking about track use, do you ever actually use 1st for anything other than pulling out of the pits? I might use 2nd like...once or twice, depending on track. Most tracks I don't use it at all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RPM_69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you know where I can get a cheap, JDM J1 or JDM S1 let me know. I just haven't found one, and the gear sets from Gear Speed are $250 ea. So a rebuild would be at least a grand.</TD></TR></TABLE>

first, how the hell did you kill the gearsets? most of the time you'll kill the bearings, shifter forks, and syncros long before doing any damage to the gears. have you opened your current case? $300-$400 will replace damn near every bearing in the gearbox.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">$300-$400 will replace damn near every bearing in the gearbox.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you replace all the bearings and synchros your parts cost is going to be $500-600. And if you pay someone else to do the work... thats another $200-300.

I had way too much $$ wrapped up in the gearbox of my racecar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

first, how the hell did you kill the gearsets? most of the time you'll kill the bearings, shifter forks, and syncros long before doing any damage to the gears. have you opened your current case? $300-$400 will replace damn near every bearing in the gearbox.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have 3 dissasembled s20 gearboxes from sohc civics here and 2 of them have heavy wear on the dog teeth on 3rd. The synchro sleeves are also shot on both of those, as well as the hub. The synchro ring itself shows minimal wear.

None of them have any damage to the shifter forks, (2 al forks from 92-95 and one steel from 96+)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If you replace all the bearings and synchros your parts cost is going to be $500-600. And if you pay someone else to do the work... thats another $200-300.

I had way too much $$ wrapped up in the gearbox of my racecar.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea, oem honda parts are way more expensive compared to gear speed parts. i had to rebuild my 1st hydro b16 and that cost a few hundred bucks in oem parts. between that, blowing up cable transmissions and buying yet another trans i could have bought a brand new itr trans from the dealer.

 

The tranny was half trashed when I bought it. It was used by the stupidest person in the world as a drag car.

So... Is a taller LS cable tranny an OK tranny, or will I regret ever putting it in the car and immediately long for the shorter ITR gears and blow the $1500 for the ITR?

Or to put it another way, is anyone happy/competative with a taller LS tranny?

 

i had an LS trans for about a year of autox and 1 lapping day.. it was ok. then i got an ITR trans.. 5 autox events and 1 lapping day and i was all smiles!! sooo much better than an LS trans hands down!

 

LS tranny blows, especially with the stock FD. If you do choose to go that route, swap in a 4.9.

 

OK you sold me. I guess there's a good reason why LS trannies are everywhere for nearly free.

Anyone got a 92-93 GSR or a 96+ ITR tranny they want to get rid of?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RPM_69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK you sold me. I guess there's a good reason why LS trannies are everywhere for nearly free.

Anyone got a 92-93 GSR or a 96+ ITR tranny they want to get rid of? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I might have an ITR tranny for $1000 shipped.. 65K miles (plus or minus), new 4th gear since the old one went poof.

 

i have a ys1 gsr tranny for sale, pm me an offer.

 

i got a sc4 with a 4.7 fd
quaife lsd

feels great!

 

In regard to the cable vs hydro debate... It was already mentioned, but the ys1 internals are the same basic design as the hydro trannies. Since this is the case you can actually put hydro internals into a cable case. IMO thats the best route. Why worry about some conversion parts when you can just swap gearsets. I just had 4.9fd itr internals put into my ys1 case. I can't wait to get it into the car!