I KNOW THIS IS A LOT TO SWALLOW, BUT I THINK IT WILL ANSWER A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO SOME, INCLUDING MYSELF IF WE ALL GET INVOLVED

How do you compare, good old fashion NHRA drag racing VS sports compact or import drag racing? The reason I ask this because currently I’m in the position where I’d like to build either a car for like NHRA sports man class or an all out drag Honda but my boss and other influences, of course all professional NHRA drag racers make fun of me about it but also bring up very valid points.

NHRA did a survey a while back about the spectators that go to these events. I wish I could remember the statistics I got were, but **% of the spectators go to the events to see the girls, wet t-shirt contents, music, CAR SHOWS, ect… I can’t remember when the last time I went to a national event or even a division event and saw this type of behavior with my work. I remember sitting at BOTI @ Seattle 2005 and 2006, and it was the final round for the classes. There were maybe 25-50 fans watching the last races and those fans were the diehard out of the groups or were apart of the team that made it to the finals. That’s kinda rough if you ask me and makes us look bad. Its like we’ve brought the club to our racing series.

I’m not here to side with the V8 crowd of NHRA but I’ve got some money to spend and now is my chance to do it… I want to build a car that is competitive and able to put my name on the map and my city. Seems like the Midwest and East coast is where this scene is the biggest, if it’s even considered big. I’ve never been to one so I can’t imagine what to expect as far as the scene over there. Just what I see on the forums is the only taste that I get out of it.

I’ve been talking to a few import drag racers, but not all of them, and I’m trying to get their opinions on this stuff. I know a lot of you had parents that were big in NHRA at one time, but with our generation Hondas/imports just is what set it off for us and is what we enjoy.

I just find it difficult building a 30k car/engine when the engine needs to be refreshed 2 or 3 times a season, the drive train sucks (unless you have 8k to spend on it), and the spectators/payouts aren’t the same. I’m in love with drag racing and I’m in love with Hondas but the two just don’t seem to make a feasible match. I could build a street V8 (Fox Body for example) car for that same price, have less tendency to break things, drive it on the street on nice days and to the track, swap out fuel and turn the boost up and 9.1* all day long and then DRIVE back home. That sounds pretty impressive to me.

[b]Anyone up to discuss some of this, or enlighten me? Maybe it’s my area… Fastest PRO Honda I ever saw (in person, in Seattle, WA was a CRX that ran one mid nine second pass, but I’ll tell you one thing, it wouldn’t be a car that I would plan on making 20 passes on and feel confident about. It’s one thing to build a car for BOTI, were talking one race. I want some that is going to be reliable, something I can take out of state, and only be driven on at the track. I want to start a profession, and I realize its not easy.

AND BEFORE ANY BASHING BEGINS, I’M NOT BIAS HERE… I’M LOOKING AT IT AS A DRAG RACING TO DRAG RACING POINT OF VIEW.

 

You build the car that you think you will have the most fun with. Its plain and simple as that.

I myself enjoy both Powerade series and of course follow the Sport Compact Series. I'm not a NHRA Lucas series fan though, just because I dont see much coverage on it on TV or know much about those guys. I can appreciate both types of racing, but what it comes down to is all about YOU, not anyone elses decision. Its you that will spend the money. Its you that will have attend the races. Its you that will be the one driving and working on the car. So it comes down to what you will enjoy being around in and the type of experience you want to get out of it.

The Bikini contests, car shows, girls, music doesnt mean anything to most racers. I can care less if those things weren't at the events. But thats me. I hardly ever go to that area anyways, we're just too busy to work on our own cars during race weekends.

Those factors shouldnt determine what type of car you should build. Thats not what racing is about. Those are just marketing and entertainment gimmicks for spectators. REAL racers will go to the track and build a car no matter what sideshow is at the event.

To compare a Honda and a Fox body's time slips and dollar amt spent, shouldnt even be done. You cant compare the 2 cars since they are both different in their own way.

And if you really believe your comment.
"I’m in love with Hondas but the two just don’t seem to make a feasible match."

Then it shows that you already somewhat made a decision about Hondas already. I know you love them, but if you're die hard Honda drag racer, you dont even think of that idea. Thats like taboo.

And dont worry about what the spectators do. Theyre spectators, not the racers. Surveys are done for the marketing and sales dept, etc. Those surveys dont make a difference to the RACERS. Your job is to just build the car, race it and have fun. Dont worry about what others think. You build what you want because you like it, not because your boss and others are telling you what to do or not to do.

P.S. thats my 2 cents ok, not meaning to bash or anything like that. Healthy conversations encouraged here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jDMJeRk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[b]
Seems like the Midwest and East coast is where this scene is the biggest, if it’s even considered big. I’ve never been to one so I can’t imagine what to expect as far as the scene over there. Just what I see on the forums is the only taste that I get out of it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just to add.

You should check you your own West Coast races down here in CA and Nevada.
The Pomona NHRA and Las Vegas NHRA event are the biggest events of the whole year.

This last IDRC event in Fontana alone had over 25+ cars trying to compete for the Pro-AM FWD class. Cutoff was at 10.50s and thats a 16 car field. there were 7 or so other cars that were in the 10s too but didnt even make the cut. I'm sure alot will agree with me that this was the CRAZIEST field ever in the history of any class in the Sport Compact Racing.

The last BOTI in Bakersfield also had a tight field with 12-15 cars fighting for the 8 car field for the similar Street Car Turbo class.

Similar scenarios with the Street All Motor classes as well at all these events.

The West Coast SportCompact racing scene is strong as ever.

 

support the sport, build a sport compact.

it doesnt even have to be a honda. look at Brian Ballards ecotec cobalt. that car is amazing. seems to be super consistant and reliable. now i have no idea what goes on behind the scenes with that car, but from what i see, the car is unstopable. (and its been 9.28@157) ITS A STREET CAR !!!!!!

alot of your breakages are from lack of driving experiance. once you know how to apply the power/ you will have less hurt parts.

 

I want the scene to grow. I want to scene to come watch us; not the girls getting wet or the DJs playing music or the cars with body kits and neon lights. That’s not what drag racing is about. That’s what I was trying to apply in my first post.

And when I mentioned feasible, I’m talking money. I built my 400whp street car and I love it to death. I would never sell it (maybe haha). It’s an adrenaline rush at that. I’ve got 20k wrapped up into that thing and I just want to move on to something safe and possibly get support from others (sponsorships). I can’t afford to go out there, try and prove to myself without sponsorships and build a 25-30k race car, break something, and try to pay for it with my $12/hr job and the support of my shop. It would just be a nightmare if something failed (Yes I know its drag racing, it happens) and be out all that money and have to start over. If I decided to do this, I would do it right without shortcuts. I know from shop experience, you can’t go to these events with a budget car or unprepared and expect to win races. For one, usually they aren’t safe for you, the track, and the other racers and for two the consistency isn’t there.

Up here (Seattle, Washington) I think the pro classes had like 2 or 3 cars in them at BOTI this year and last year. The import series that Pacific just had for us this year was a HUGE turn out, but it’s a local event, and 75% (if not more) of the crowd were just doing the “fun� run (not competing). We sponsored the event which was a 4 race series, and the people that took 1st, 2nd, and 3rd were the only ones that showed up to all 4 races. I just don’t see a big scene in the PNW and I just find it hard that its going to grow as fast as we expect it to when my friends and I are the scene and there are only a small handful of us that are taking it from the street to the strip.

My passion is my Honda, then it was street racing my Honda, then it was professional NHRA drag racing, and now its time to take all of my passions and give this thing a shot whether it’s a domestic or import. I just wanted to some others opinions. I’ve got the money, I’m itching to spend it, and have enough support to get started but I just don’t want to regret it.

Anyhow…

Thanks for the positive responses

 

are you trying to build a pro car or a street car??

if its a street car... are you building a STREET car or a street CLASS car?

 

I dont know why my reply was so screwed up... I guess thats what happens when you copy and paste it form Word to HT.

I'm not sure what class it would fall in... I'm not that far ahead. I just want a 9.** consistent car. I have the core parts (block and head), just need to decide what is more worth it, even worth it at all. I just dont want to be fixing things left and right to an extent. I understand, even the Powerade sportsman break things and replace things, but I know its not as much as the SC scene. I think with the right build and right transmission, its possible to be as consistent.

 

it sounds like you have the question in your head "whats more reliable, a 9 second import or a 9 second v-8?" i live 10 minutes away from woodburn dragstrip, and all their is out here is domestic v-8's. any sunday when you go to the strip just for regular old e.t. drags. all there is are v-8's, its cool to be different. you get some old guy with a 69 camaro come look at this shitty honda with like 30k in it running constant 10's that you drove to the track with your slicks, tools, and jack in the hatch, while he used his 30k truck and huge *** trailer to tow his 10 second chevelle to the track(im a sucker for chevelles) because there is now way you can drive a 10 second v-8 car to the track that i can think of without being legal. to me a 12 second v-8 car that was driven to the track is the same as a 10 second import driven to the track, i guess you can say in street legal perspective.

im on my second build right now, ive dumped about 50k in both builds so far and im only half way through my 2nd build. if i had to do it again, i dont know what i would do to tell you the truth.

but all in all, ive had a great time with the "shady" import scene over here in oregon

 

Parts are going to break in racing no matter what. You can't say there are more parts breakage between the 2.

It is a known fact that as you make more power, the parts we use are under more stress. More power = Faster car = more chances of breaking parts.

If you are worried about breaking parts, keep it stock.

 

just build a v8 nhra sc dose not care about you if you live on the west cost

 

there are more than a few people that have proven you can run consistent 9's in a honda w/o breaking things too much, seems to me like if you can do it on a 24.5inch tire you will be fine and keep things in one piece.

 

You guys have all brought up very valid points, and I'm surprised with the responses.

I think I'm just going to go with the SC build just to be different.

Were all on the same page as far as wear and tear goes on ANY engine, but its nice to limit that to almost nothing if at all possible..

BUT...

redboost10 Our shop is notorious for building 8 second street cars, just check out our website http://www.turbotechnologyinc.com/jobjrdays.htm

That fox body lives 1/2 of a mile from me and hes making over 1200 a the flywheel and running 8's on a street tire, driven to the track and driven home. Full interrior, even full stereo system
That hatch picture where it shows the bottle (which is used for the wastegates) and the bass tube just shows you the street car we have into this thing. Sure a power glide is pushing the limits of that "street car title" but it sure kits *** and is very consistent.

Its just hard to choose.... I work for a company that basically invented performance turbo charing for the fox bodies back in 1985ish and they have the art down to a science. They are willing to help me make a Honda break the barrier, but in the end, the MPH and ET is all the same, until you include getting on the boards to brag about it (lame).

I'm all on the same pages as you all, and I'm not just hear to bullshit about things, what actions I take are going to be critical, but sticking to my roots is what I'd like to do, but I'm scared... Either the scene isn't going to grow as fast, or I wont be able to afford the breakage. Mike Laskey told me a valid point too... Something breaks, its not like you have to start over... its just usually the small stuff.....

Eh, only time will tell.. I think I'm going to go with Import Builders k20 build w/an s2k crank.. Well see...

Thanks again for the input!

Nick Medlock
Turbo Technology INC

 

damnitt, fox bodies dont count just joking. theres a guy in vancouver, has a 88 f-body, with FAST and a pt91 that runs mid 8's. i dont know why he dosnt twist his frame.

anyways, good luck with the import build.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jDMJeRk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Eh, only time will tell.. I think I'm going to go with Import Builders k20 build w/an s2k crank.. Well see...

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The place you work builds fast cars right? Why cant they do the engine build for you.

 

Sport Compact till i DIE!!!!

 

i really don't know what you're goal is so it's hard to give advice. You say you could build a street car that runs 9's but a street car isn't going to be competitive in any NHRA sportsman categories that i can think of.

The way i've always seen it, if you want to get serious into racing you need to get into the NHRA sportsman series. The sponsors are there, the competition, very few rule changes, and it's a regional series. There is also a chance that if you prove yourself you might get a seat driving someone's car in one of the pro classes.

No offense to the SC series or those that run it but i just don't see it being the best route for possible returns on your investment.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rota92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.... Its tempting, but without us making an effort within our sector we wont be able to progess like the 'V-8' guys</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats my point of view with my employees exactly. But it would suck to go out on a limb, be the only one that wasted his investment to try and help the rest of the crowd.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by njn63 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i really don't know what you're goal is so it's hard to give advice. You say you could build a street car that runs 9's but a street car isn't going to be competitive in any NHRA sportsman categories that i can think of.

The way i've always seen it, if you want to get serious into racing you need to get into the NHRA sportsman series. The sponsors are there, the competition, very few rule changes, and it's a regional series. There is also a chance that if you prove yourself you might get a seat driving someone's car in one of the pro classes.

No offense to the SC series or those that run it but i just don't see it being the best route for possible returns on your investment.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Again, this is how I see it... But you can make a street car that could run in the sports man class couldn't you... Its just basically running a number.. I didnt think they had restrictions on things.. As long as you have a delay box and throttle stop(s), you can make any car run a number...

The more I read and get others opinions, it seems like SC is dieing off and its phrasing out.... At least thats what the big turbo distributors are telling me...

Nick

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jDMJeRk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The more I read and get others opinions, it seems like SC is dieing off and its phrasing out.... At least thats what the big turbo distributors are telling me...

Nick</TD></TR></TABLE>

if this is directed to the west coast, i totally agree. at least the northwest. this may not mean anything, but some of the big time import shops with a reputable name in the portland area were into drag racing for, i dont know, 2-3 years, now one is into drifting, another does not have a "company" drag car anymore, just does automotive work. if your just going to use this car just for some weekend bracket racing thing, and get into the local track points deal, i wouldnt think twice about building a v-8. the way i see it over here at woodburn dragstrip with their sunday e.t. drags, just like a local points deal, its just having a automatic musle car that is consistent. a turbocharged import needs to try twice as hard to be consistent and compete with the muscle cars. if you like the challenge, nothing will stop you. im not saying it cannot be done, just saying it takes more effort. but im just taking woodburn strip into perspective. and like i mentioned before, there is nothing more cooler than being in the pro sportsman class with the only street legal car in the staging lanes, and to add to that its a 4 cylinder, that eases the challenge

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jDMJeRk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Again, this is how I see it... But you can make a street car that could run in the sports man class couldn't you... Its just basically running a number.. I didnt think they had restrictions on things.. As long as you have a delay box and throttle stop(s), you can make any car run a number...

The more I read and get others opinions, it seems like SC is dieing off and its phrasing out.... At least thats what the big turbo distributors are telling me...

Nick</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, it depends on what class of course. I always think of competition eliminator though where it's all out trying to run under your index as much as you can though because that's what i want to run.

 

What is your goal with drag racing? Are you looking for some kind of a career plan, or do you plan on being a sponsored racer? If you want to make a living at racing, then that is one thing. But if you want to race, have fun, and enjoy racing at the sportsman level, then your direction can be anything you want. Sport Compact or Domestic, the important thing is to get out there and race!
Check out Speed Scene Live at http://www.speedsceneracing.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jDMJeRk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Again, this is how I see it... But you can make a street car that could run in the sports man class couldn't you... Its just basically running a number.. I didnt think they had restrictions on things.. As long as you have a delay box and throttle stop(s), you can make any car run a number...

The more I read and get others opinions, it seems like SC is dieing off and its phrasing out.... At least thats what the big turbo distributors are telling me...

Nick</TD></TR></TABLE>


Again, I want to say, WHO CARES WHAT OTHERS THING OF THE SCENE. The future of the scene is us and not the manufacturers and distributors. Its us racers who buys the parts. Its us that decide what car to build and keeps this scene alive. If youre decision is based on what others think of the future of the sport, then you have some deep thinking to do buddy.

Just build the car YOU like regardless of the potential times it can make. Love it for it being a 13, 12, 11, 10 or even a 9 sec car. I'm around fast cars and big money Honda race engines every single day. We build race engines that EVEN I wish I could have in my own car. But in the end, I go to the track, take a friend's 13 second car out to the track and I'm happy as expletive to get to race down the track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exospeedAMcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Again, I want to say, WHO CARES WHAT OTHERS THING OF THE SCENE. The future of the scene is us and not the manufacturers and distributors. Its us racers who buys the parts. Its us that decide what car to build and keeps this scene alive. If youre decision is based on what others think of the future of the sport, then you have some deep thinking to do buddy.

Just build the car YOU like regardless of the potential times it can make. Love it for it being a 13, 12, 11, 10 or even a 9 sec car. I'm around fast cars and big money Honda race engines every single day. We build race engines that EVEN I wish I could have in my own car. But in the end, I go to the track, take a friend's 13 second car out to the track and I'm happy as expletive to get to race down the track.
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haha i know the feeling bro... i love going out to the track/ to the dyno/ to pick up parts for my buddys racecar. but i cant actually be the one "doing it"

now ....if i could just find a few more $

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exospeedAMcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Again, I want to say, WHO CARES WHAT OTHERS THING OF THE SCENE. The future of the scene is us and not the manufacturers and distributors. Its us racers who buys the parts. Its us that decide what car to build and keeps this scene alive. If youre decision is based on what others think of the future of the sport, then you have some deep thinking to do buddy.

Just build the car YOU like regardless of the potential times it can make. Love it for it being a 13, 12, 11, 10 or even a 9 sec car. I'm around fast cars and big money Honda race engines every single day. We build race engines that EVEN I wish I could have in my own car. But in the end, I go to the track, take a friend's 13 second car out to the track and I'm happy as expletive to get to race down the track.
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I would just rather race 15 or 20 people in a class instead of 4 or 5... That gets boring...

I love drag racing... I don't care what I'm driving... **** I'd drive a JR dragster if I could lol

 

Here's next years line up... 2007 season...

11 TOTAL races... 2 of them on the westcoast and over thousands of miles away.

http://www.nhrasportcompact.co...id=10

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redboost10 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">because there is now way you can drive a 10 second v-8 car to the track that i can think of without being legal. to me a 12 second v-8 car that was driven to the track is the same as a 10 second import driven to the track, i guess you can say in street legal perspective.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I hate to call BS on my 4th post, but I have to call it as I see it.

You put a twin setup or even a big single on a BONE STOCK 5.0 and it will consistently put down mid 400 to the tires with an AOD/t5/C4/3550/TKO whatever. Thats a high 10/low11 second car that cost $1500 - $4000 for the car and as cheap as $800 turbo setup using super coupe .60 t3s. Your last statement is backwards, To me a 12 second import driven to the track is the same as a 10 second v8 car. You obviously have never seen the Pump Gas drags in Hot Rod . . .