im looking for a new suspension setup for my 95 hatchback. ive been running the tein flex with 9k front and 4k rear spring rates and it is WAY too soft. I'm leaning towards getting a set of function form coilovers mainly because of the price, range of available spring rates, and rebuild sevice. i will be using the car for daily driving, agressive backroad driving, autox and hopefully some HPDE'S. my question is what do you guys reccomend i use in the way of front and rear spring rates... i dont want to go lower than 12k in front, because of the nasty roads around here. with my teins i was hitting the bump stops all the time, while my freind with 12k up front was fine. i have had good experience w/ lower rates in the rear at autocross with the tiens. my cousin also has the omni coilovers rated at 12k front and 14k rear, and his car also is very neutral. i would definatly appreciate some professional expereince from some of you guys on honda tech

 

anyone?

 

most people would tell you to look into koni's and GC's

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoHonda_Garage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my cousin also has the omni coilovers rated at 12k front and 14k rear, and his car also is very neutral. </TD></TR></TABLE>

14k in the rear of a 95eg is not going to be nice on the street.... But its just up to you when deciding what the definition of ride comfort is.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most people would tell you to look into koni's and GC's </TD></TR></TABLE>

id much rather a full coilover setup.. especially since im going to be running mostly on the street. i dont like the idea of my springs flopping around when my supension is unloaded.
and with the roads and parking lots around here im 3 wheeling all the time..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MyEG6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

14k in the rear of a 95eg is not going to be nice on the street.... But its just up to you when deciding what the definition of ride comfort is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i like a stiff ride... idk why but i like to feel everyhting im driving over... the stiffer the better, i just dont want to be so stiff its unsafe on street tires...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoHonda_Garage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

id much rather a full coilover setup.. especially since im going to be running mostly on the street. i dont like the idea of my springs flopping around when my supension is unloaded.
and with the roads and parking lots around here im 3 wheeling all the time..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not trying to be a dick, but your looking for preformance out of something that is sold for the look.

A full coilover is a hype term some marketing person came up with. Your car has coilover suspension stock. there is not a Half coilover.

thousands of people drive around, thousands of miles a year with zero issues with "springs floping around". but if you are really that concerned you can by helper springs.

the prefomance of the koni GC setup can't really be beat. And if you looking for strictly street. Then you came into the wrong forum to ask for help.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not trying to be a dick, but your looking for preformance out of something that is sold for the look.

A full coilover is a hype term some marketing person came up with. Your car has coilover suspension stock. there is not a Half coilover.

thousands of people drive around, thousands of miles a year with zero issues with "springs floping around". but if you are really that concerned you can by helper springs.

the prefomance of the koni GC setup can't really be beat. And if you looking for strictly street. Then you came into the wrong forum to ask for help.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i see where youre coming from... but honestly whats the difference? the only possible differences are spring rates, dampening and its range of adjustability and wether its a monotube desighn or not. why not take advantage of a setup that you can independently adjust ride height and spring preload? and why does every single tuner in japan use a coilover setup as opposed to a spring/shock setup. there are alot of fast cars /drivers here in america... but im sure most of their tuned time attack cars could smoke most of the ones desighned and tuned here in america. i dont understand why people hate on coilovers so much.

on the dvd by best motoring : amreican touge 2 the top setup eg6 running apexi n1 coiovers smoked EVERYHTING on the track including a supercharged comptech nsx and s2000. those coilovers are vey similar in desighn and performance to the fuction forms., which i have only heard good things about.

so please spare me your opinions on how crappy coilovers are and please post only if you have something to contribute to the question asked.

 

Go ask in the suspension forum or the aggressive back road driving forum. You might have more help there.

Why are you even asking here. This forum is run out of the United States. I would probably find a forum based in Japan. That way you can gain useful knowledge from the tuners over there that are CLEARLY superior.

 

im not saying theyre superior... im saying they use non sleeve coilovers with just as good results.

 

You really should take this to the Suspension forum. No one here will give you the answer you're looking for (though some of these same people, myself included, will tell you the same thing over there...). Just to answer a spring rate question, 14K in the rear will have your car pretty much airborne over sharp bumps. It will NOT be in control, regardless of how much you like it. Those kinds of rates are made only for something really smooth, like the track.

&lt;--- Uses 18K springs in the rear, and has driven it on the street, though will not again.

 

ok thanks for the input. helpful info

 

Heres some helpful info:

I have Konis/GC on my EG

450 lb/in Front
600 lb/in Rear

My head hits the roof of my car over small bumps in the road.
The ride IS NOT comfortable it's tolerable, but the girlfriend HATES it.

On the other side, this seems to be a great setup for the track and auto-x.

But its not something thats good for the street. AND I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE spirited driving on the public road, escecially with a suspension like this. It doesn't take much for the rear end to come around. With other cars on the road, and no safety equipement, you can get into trouble REALLY fast. Keep your spirited driving for use on the track.

Other plugs for GC and Koni, is that they have good support here. You can get what ever you need within a week (from hardware replacement parts to whatever rate spring you want). And there are people here on this board from those companies.

 

ok so... do you think a 12/13k setup might be good? i dont realy care about ride quality. and my g/f doesnt usually ride in my car, the only ppl that do are my buddies that are into cars and they dont care... i can always run them full soft or low damping setting on the street ro make it less bouncy. im just looking for a good "ratio" between front and rear that i can further tune wth preload and damping

 

8K/6K is about the most I would ever want on the street. Anything higher then that starts becoming more teeth shattering and bone jarring. Not to mention UNSAFE. By you running softer damper settings like all the way down, is only going to make it worse with super stiff spring rates. Especially with a damper like a Tein Flex or whatever other garbage you mentioned earlier that I have never heard of. Although I'm not sure why I'm even posting this because I would have better luck talking to a brick wall then someone who takes advice from "Best Motoring" videos.

Why is it again you think you "need" stiffer rates?

 

I'm running 8k/7k and it's just about as high as I want to go on the street. If you're planning on running really high rates, and you turn down the shocks to the softest setting you risk being under damped, then the car will bounce from too much because the shocks can't control the springs. Depending on what shock you get, running that high of rates may be too much anyway and you'll be under damped at full stiff.

 

Agreed... with the two previous posts.

I do NOT turn the shocks down....

and I don't drive the car in the rain, and I don't drive it very far. I drive it enough to keep the oil moving, the battery charged, and the water moving.

It's no joke about the car being a TOTAL bitch on the street. I have bitten my lip, I have hit my head. Your homies may think it's cool until they have big ole effin bump in the head. Not to mention the panels REALLY shake a lot, and the suspension squeeks amd the CD Player skips all the time. I have resorted to using cassettes again.

The car is no longer a daily driver, and it's barely an erand runner or back up car.
The GF does not drive it and the kid does not drive it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoHonda_Garage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im looking for a new suspension setup for my 95 hatchback. ive been running the tein flex with 9k front and 4k rear spring rates and it is WAY too soft. I'm leaning towards getting a set of function form coilovers mainly because of the price, range of available spring rates, and rebuild sevice. i will be using the car for daily driving, agressive backroad driving, autox and hopefully some HPDE'S. my question is what do you guys reccomend i use in the way of front and rear spring rates... i dont want to go lower than 12k in front, because of the nasty roads around here. with my teins i was hitting the bump stops all the time, while my freind with 12k up front was fine. i have had good experience w/ lower rates in the rear at autocross with the tiens. my cousin also has the omni coilovers rated at 12k front and 14k rear, and his car also is very neutral. i would definatly appreciate some professional expereince from some of you guys on honda tech </TD></TR></TABLE>

let me ask you a simple question. why do you want stiffer springs? in other words, what is the problem that you are looking to fix?

lets look at it like this. you currently have stiffer springs than stock. you mentioned that the car is bottoming out on bumps. now the million dollars question is why do you think its because of the "weak" spring rate. clearly the stock version of your car doesnt have this problem and its springs are softer than what you have.

so what else about your car is different? the ride hieght. maybe if your car wasnt as low as it is then you could use the springs you currently have and not wory about bottoming out.

so this begs the question, why is your car as low as it ? (i could be wrong in assuming that its low, but i think we all think the same thing about your car)

tell us some of the other problems that you are having. if you think the car understeers too bad, or if you think the body rolls too much etc, these are problems that can be fixed without increasing the srping rate.

im no expert but every suspension tuning book i've ever read says that jacking up the srping rate as a means of adjusting the aboved mentioned problems is not the way to do it.

so why dont we start from the beginning. what are all of the problems that you wish to fix. maybe higher spring rates are the answer, maybe not.

 

thank you to those who posted useful information within the last 3 posts.... heres my problem. maybe im totally worng here (and that very possible) but with my tiens it just seemed like over the smallest bumps they would hit the bumpstops. like rediculously small bumps. my freind has buddy club dampers at 12k and 8 k and his car is not in any way overly harsh. the car doesnt bounce, we drive an hour to school on the parkway everyday, and its not the least bit uncomfortable.
maybe it was just shitty damping rates in the tiens, ut i figrued since the 12/8 setup was great (even maybe a little on the soft side even at full stiff damping) i would go a little higher. this is just what i deducted from PERSONAL expereince... and that i swhy i am asking you guys your opinion on the conclusion i have deducted. my car isnt very low... its lowered but its barely tucking tire. ... let me know if you think ride height is my issue here because i really dont think that it is.



im thinking about mayb just going the same as my frind has on his ek. 12 and 8. honstly its not bad at all. his dampening range is pretty broad too. i think he runs 3 clicks up from full soft frnt and rear for commuting and honestly it feels like a more taught stock suspension.

 

You look too low to me. To not hit bumpstops at that height i think you're going to need some serious rates...

If you're hitting your bumpstops on little bumps, are your bumpstops trimmed at all? Are your bushings shot? Years ago this is what led to my car feeling awful even with springrates of 250f/180r.

I would say trim your stops accordingly, jack your car up a bit, run rates somewhere between 350 and 500 front and/or rear and you'll be fine.

Also, I'm a huge fan of the GC/Koni as well. With the correct setup your springs will not be "floping", especially with a rear bar. You can't beat the price, quality, performance, etc. etc...

Lastly, why is this in this forum again?

 

Buddy Club dampers are just plain better than the Tein dampers you have. Spring rates aside, the damping on the BCs is much stronger/stiffer/whatever you want to call it, so there's the explanation for your comparison. Similarly, Koni Yellow shocks are great shocks, and will make way more of a difference in feel and performance than swapping out springs. You should look through the Suspension forum's shock dyno thread to get an idea of how all these things match up. A lot of the JDM shocks just aren't up to par as far as range of adjustment or maximum damping. The BCs aren't perfect, but they're better than a good number of the other offerings.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm running 8k/7k and it's just about as high as I want to go on the street. If you're planning on running really high rates, and you turn down the shocks to the softest setting you risk being under damped, then the car will bounce from too much because the shocks can't control the springs. Depending on what shock you get, running that high of rates may be too much anyway and you'll be under damped at full stiff. </TD></TR></TABLE>

the shocks im thinking about getting get valved according to the spring rates that are ordered... theres a 2 onth waiting period when ordered w/ custom rates because of this. so i dont think being underdamped will ever be an issue.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Buddy Club dampers are just plain better than the Tein dampers you have. Spring rates aside, the damping on the BCs is much stronger/stiffer/whatever you want to call it, so there's the explanation for your comparison. Similarly, Koni Yellow shocks are great shocks, and will make way more of a difference in feel and performance than swapping out springs. You should look through the Suspension forum's shock dyno thread to get an idea of how all these things match up. A lot of the JDM shocks just aren't up to par as far as range of adjustment or maximum damping. The BCs aren't perfect, but they're better than a good number of the other offerings.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks man

curious about that shock dyno thread. do you happen to have a link?

considering what i said at the top of this post about the valving i think the function form setup may be a good deal no matter what rates i go with since theyre valved accordingly. so now its just a matter of choosing good rates.

 

i can deinitely say that i wont be buying tein again. the finish and whatnot is top notch but the units just dont perform well enough for my taste.

i forgot to ask this earlier, is your car weight balanced and is the suspension otherwise tuned?

it makes a huge difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.E.G. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i can deinitely say that i wont be buying tein again. the finish and whatnot is top notch but the units just dont perform well enough for my taste.

i forgot to ask this earlier, is your car weight balanced and is the suspension otherwise tuned?

it makes a huge difference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah same here... very dissapointed with tein.

its not cornerweighted... i dont have the resources or money for it... and dont know anyone with a set.

but i had pulyurethane bucshings all around with a gsr swaybar up front (soon replacing with an si) and a 23mm itr on the rear. i also have adjustable upper contrl arms front and rear all on gsr suspension.

i recently spoke to Rodney here on h-t and he reviewed my current setup and the coilovers im looking into. he said if i switch to a 21 mm (si) front sway and run 12kf and 10kr i will have a good all around setup for steet and auto x.

for those of you who dont know who he is....http://www.b18c5.com/ im sure his input is PLENTY valid. conidering he drove and competed witht he same car as i have. he too runs on full coilovers, not koni/gc

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoHonda_Garage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he too runs on full coilovers, not koni/gc</TD></TR></TABLE>

What exactly do people mean when they say this? Like the Koni/GC's are artificial or something?

For the record I have Koni coil overs on my vehicle with Eibach ERS springs. Thanks Lee @ Koni and Ryan @ Eibach. Couldn't be happier.

From the shock dyno's that I have seen, I would consider the Tein RA's, RE's or N1's, but then when I look at the price, I might as well get Koni 2812's for that kind of coin.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Hammond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What exactly do people mean when they say this? Like the Koni/GC's are artificial or something?

For the record I have Koni coil overs on my vehicle with Eibach ERS springs. Thanks Lee @ Koni and Ryan @ Eibach. Couldn't be happier.

From the shock dyno's that I have seen, I would consider the Tein RA's, RE's or N1's, but then when I look at the price, I might as well get Koni 2812's for that kind of coin.</TD></TR></TABLE>

meaning like a non sleeve type with independednt ride height and perload adjustment.
i would love to get a set of those, but i have no money
but yeah i figured out what im going to be running.... thanks to everyone who helped out