which one is better? 4-1 or 4-2-1. i'm thinking about a 4-1 header for my h22. does anyone know where i can find one? if not... what are the good headers out there beside dc's? what about customs? where and how much? please let me know so i won't regret what i buy. thanks

 

anything is better then stock....just get something that is mandrel bent and stainless that doesnt cost u an arm and a leg..the performance difference is negligible, i have 4-1 on my h23 and it made a HUGE difference in top end. 4-2-1 headers seem a bit complicated...but thats just my $.02

about where to find them.....EBAY!!@##%@% i got mine for 40 bucks! and im very happy with them.

 

Really? For the H22 I was completely under the impression there are VERY few headers out there that are better than the stock one.

 

^^^^correct..

unless you plan on spending 800 bucks at least or buying a greddy and modifying it, all the "mass produced" headers are crap...

 

Hey hey hey, my DC header is not crap. **** maybe, but not crap... Cant wait to buy an RMF or SMSP.

 

the 00-01 header is already good enough, but if you're looking for 2 more ponies look into the kamikaze one-piece header, from what i know i thinks its one of the few one piece header still available for our car. anything other than that has to be custom , if you wish to see any real hp gain. i'm running the dc 4-2-1 and i feel all i did was bought a shinier ceramic coated stock header. good luck man

 

from what i read the oem h22 header is the same dimensions as the dc excpet the oem is double walled.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ludasaurus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Really? For the H22 I was completely under the impression there are VERY few headers out there that are better than the stock one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yup putting my stock one back on

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by M2B4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">from what i read the oem h22 header is the same dimensions as the dc excpet the oem is double walled. </TD></TR></TABLE>

eleborate

 

M2B4 has no idea what he is talkin about!

4-1 is better for highend and 4-2-1 is better for bottom end. Or maybe its the other way around...

lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WhiteBB2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">M2B4 has no idea what he is talkin about!

4-1 is better for highend and 4-2-1 is better for bottom end. Or maybe its the other way around...

lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

your right about 4-1 and 4-2-1

 

Well its kinda like this...I am pretty sure of this but I could be wrong
4-1
Good For High End (drag?)
4-2-1
Good for mid-range (road racing, autox, etc)

 

well from what i understood from all the older threads on this was that when comparing the jdm h22 stock mani to a dc header the stock mani is double walled. they were the same in diameter minus the stock is double wall. im guessing to keep heat temps down. which is why it isnt as loud as a dc and which would explain the gain in ~2whp (without doing a collector mod) due it it flowing easier, but for the cost it wouldn't be as effective to buy the dc for such small gains. which is why people lean toward smsp and rmf headers which are bigger and equal length. is that any better?

 

do all after market headers have a 2.5" outlet?

 

no most dont which is why people do the collector mod so you can get 2.5" outlet.
edit: 2morrow my pos ebay header comes in and ill take measurements and compare them 2 the stock jdm h22 mani

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ludasaurus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Really? For the H22 I was completely under the impression there are VERY few headers out there that are better than the stock one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They're almost all better performing than the stock one. Maybe not a lot better for the DC style (Megan, OBX, etc), but still better.

 

my catalytic converter is 2.5", how would i connect those? use an adapter? or should i just find one that has a 2.5" outlet header.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ge_itr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my catalytic converter is 2.5", how would i connect those? use an adapter? or should i just find one that has a 2.5" outlet header.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you should be fine... i think i read that using a donut helps but i had no problems connecting my 2.5" cat back to my stock cat... maybe someone can eleborate this some more. Cause im gonna go with my stock manifold to a smsp cat to my T1R cat back

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A Blue Lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They're almost all better performing than the stock one. Maybe not a lot better for the DC style (Megan, OBX, etc), but still better.</TD></TR></TABLE>



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ludasaurus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Really? For the H22 I was completely under the impression there are VERY few headers out there that are better than the stock one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

well my header came a day early. it measered in the same as the stock jdm header. 2" collector 1.75" primaries and secondaries. which is the same as a friend of mines megan header. so that goes to show the quality of the stock jdm header. the aftermarket just isnt double walled.

 

you will get a few extra ponies.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by M2B4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well my header came a day early. it measered in the same as the stock jdm header. 2" collector 1.75" primaries and secondaries. which is the same as a friend of mines megan header. so that goes to show the quality of the stock jdm header. the aftermarket just isnt double walled.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

I believe 4 -1 is low end torqe.
and 4-2-1 is for consistent power.

I had a 4-1 DC on my EG2 b16a3 with a test pipe and I didn't need exhaust.

It sounded quite nice with stock muffler.

I'd go with 4-1 config. I think it gets bottom end because there's less flow and the power is condensed before 3 rpms. With the 4-2-1 more flow, and good for vtec. after 4.5 k or 5.2.

My speculations.

 

yeah, thats it, the header condenses the power.....

...and 4-2-1 headers are better for vtec....of course....why didn't I think of that?

It all depends on who makes it....part of a header's job is to use the pattern of exhaust pulses as a means of creating negative pressure in the tubes from the cylinders that aren't currently firing....good 4-1 headers, like the rmf units, do this, crappy 4-1 headers do not, they just dump all 4 tubes into the collector at once....4-2-1 headers however have that effect built in, as long as the tubes are paired as they are on the DC or most other popular headers, both of the first collectors accomplish that goal...it takes some more thought to do that effectively with a 4-1 design.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, thats it, the header condenses the power.....

...and 4-2-1 headers are better for vtec....of course....why didn't I think of that?

It all depends on who makes it....part of a header's job is to use the pattern of exhaust pulses as a means of creating negative pressure in the tubes from the cylinders that aren't currently firing....good 4-1 headers, like the rmf units, do this, crappy 4-1 headers do not, they just dump all 4 tubes into the collector at once....4-2-1 headers however have that effect built in, as long as the tubes are paired as they are on the DC or most other popular headers, both of the first collectors accomplish that goal...it takes some more thought to do that effectively with a 4-1 design.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

that cleared up a lot.
i was thinking about getting a dc 4-2-1 header. what's the difference between the stainless steel one and ceramic unit? heat dissipation efficiency? im guessin' the stainless steel one is better since it costs an arm more.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mugen23cc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'd go with 4-1 config. I think it gets bottom end because there's less flow and the power is condensed before 3 rpms. With the 4-2-1 more flow, and good for vtec. after 4.5 k or 5.2.
My speculations. </TD></TR></TABLE> lol

 

hahha....let me edit a few things I said there, the wording is a bit off.....

I'll bold the changed parts....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, thats it, the header condenses the power.....

...and 4-2-1 headers are better for vtec....of course....why didn't I think of that?

It all depends on who makes it....part of a header's job is to use the pattern of exhaust pulses as a means of creating negative pressure in the all the primaries...good 4-1 headers, like the rmf units, do this, crappy 4-1 headers do not, they just dump all 4 tubes into the collector with no consideration for the effects of exhaust pulsing....4-2-1 headers however have that effect built in, as long as the tubes are paired as they are on the DC or most other popular headers, [b]where cylinders seperated by one in the firing order are paired to go from 4 tubes into 2[b]...both of the first collectors accomplish that goal...then the third and final collector adds to the effects in the primaries as well as in the secondaries, it is basically a multiplier of that effect, due to that advantage, it takes some more thoughtful engineering to keep up with a 4-1 design.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

The "secret" that RMF uses in his headers is that the tubes come into a square style merge collector. The 4 pipes come together 2 on top 2 on bottom. The collector brings them together by cutting them in a sort of V on the 2 outside sides, and in the middle tapering each pipe down to a point (that taper is different on each type of collector, some go straight down at a tuned slope, some bow out then curve in, etc), so if you look into the upper half of an rmf header from the bottom, with the collector off, you will look at 4 pipes coming together and forming a point....stick your finger on that point, its sharp. Now, all 4 pipes come together in a circular order, if you follow the snakes back up to the head, you will see that this order is in fact the firing order. So, when the exhaust pulses reach the collector in order like that, they create a swirl effect, which greatly adds to the normal negative pressure that follows an exhaust pulse in drawing exhaust gases out....

good, now go copy his design and sell it for $400...lol....

That isn't some sort of secret that Randy let me in on, Brad at RLZ actually alerted me to that originally, but if you think about his design, its pretty apparent.

Note that this sort of thing isn't the only reason that rmf, sms, dtr, etc headers make good power. Those guys use high quality collectors, welding, as well as knowing how to choose the right sizing for all the tubing and collectors.....


Ceramic materials are coveted for their heat handling properties, they can get much hotter than metal without damage, though they don't necessarily dissipate heat better. Ceramics do not conduct heat as well as metals, meaning that the stainless header will get hotter more easily. The downfall to the ceramic coating is that I have seen many examples of it rusting very easily.

Modified by bb4ever at 9:42 PM 12/5/2006


Modified by bb4ever at 9:47 PM 12/5/2006