Ok, well im sure people saw me asking alot about turbo's... Well i did alot of searching, and i just have a few more questions. I just want to get every thing write the 1st time. First off, I don't want to spend too much money into this. I wanted to know how much boost can i run on stock head internals, and stock sleeves. Here is my list of stuff that I want to get for my setup (please corect me if im wroung in anything or missed something out)

1) A full turbo kit w/ intercooler (t3/T4)
2) skunk2 intake manifold
3) 450cc fuel injectors
4) a better fuel pump
5) obx fuel rail
6) Convert to OBD1 P13?(dose it matter?) And chipped and hondata s100 or s200
7) tuned at shop after all stuff is on
8) WISECO FORGED PISTONS 9.5:1, EAGLE RODS
9) ARP head studs and new head gaskit.
10) BOOST AIR/FUEL OIL PSI GAUGE

I hope to run at least 6-8 PSI with NO problem's (I hope)

And what is or how. "Have your entire rotating assembly balanced" by JG Luder

Thanx to EVERY one that has helped me! This setup will hopefully be on a 99 SH (skrew the ATTS)


Why im asking every thing in detail is because I dont want problems down the road.

 

You should read more about this stuff before you dive into doing this build....

Skunk2 intake manifolds.........go with a big plenum like the venom or the str for turbo, and get a bigger throttle body

use bigger injectors, if you make any power at all you're gonna max out those 450s quick.....780 or so should do it

you need a p28 or p72 to run hondata

 

780 cc injectors for 8 PSI????

 

why run such low boost?

if youre getting forged internals run more

 

whats the most boost i can run without changing my sleeves or upgrading my head internals?

 

from what i've read, on a good tune, you can run 8-10psi on stock internals. but thats with a good tune.

im also doing my own turbo project, here's my part list

Engine: (Here's the fun part!)
Skunk2 Racing Intake Manifold
South Beach Racing Turbo Manifold
DSM 450CC Blue Top Injectors
ST1 Stage IV .84 A/R .68T Turbo
Greddy Front Mount Intercooler
TiAl 40mm Wastegate
TiAl 50mm Blow Off Valve
Walbro 255LPH Fuel Pump
AEM Fuel Pressure Regulator
AEM Fuel Rail
AEM Fuel Pressure Gauge
CRP 3" Downpipe
Custom Intercooler Pipe

Transmission:
ACT StreetLite Flywheel
ACT F1 Racing 6 Puck Clutch
ACT Pressure Plate
Forebidden Short Shifter

In-Car Electronics:
Greddy 52mm White Face Boost Gauge
Apexi AVC-R Boost Controller
Greddy Black Turbo Timer
Chipped/Socketed P28 With Datalogging
AEM Wideband A/F Gauge

and i plan on only running 6psi, just to be on the safe side.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mafia &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">780 cc injectors for 8 PSI????</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's better to run lower IDCs (injector duty cycle) than maxing out your current injectors. You want to have some extra reserve in case of boost spike, elevation changes, poor gas quality, etc etc. For ANY boost application, I'd recommend at the minimum 550's for low boost setups.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mafia &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I just want to get every thing write the 1st time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh-oh

 

If you're going with forged pistons you HAVE to go with a sleeved block. If you don't, your forged pistons will simply scratch up your stock FRM sleeves. In other words, forged pistons=sleeving block.

Everythign else looks alright. Some of the other vets can give you better insight.

 

were can i get sleeves that are not too price'y something that would hold mabe 12 psi max? Darton International cost $675, but that for like 30 psi. Because money wise im allmost maxed out

 

You'll want to save more than. If you max out your money just getting the stuff together, you won't have money when something goes wrong and you have to fix it.

Think about it. What will you rather have:

1. Save some more money. Have a more reliable and better build = more fun with the car.

2. Cut corners, and something goes wrong. Car goes into the shop = less fun with the car.

 

any sleeves you want to recomand to me that will hold 12+ psi? I can allways borow my bro's 00 hatch b18c5 (If anything gose wroung) I hope it dont.

 

I would also suggest getting 9:1 or 8.5:1 ratio... for later. You dont want to do things twice with these kind of expensive parts.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mafia &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any sleeves you want to recomand to me that will hold 12+ psi?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Go with the tried and true sleeves, GE or Benson.

 

Why do you guys like to list your mods like that?

When you put it that way it just looks like a waste of money....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by frompa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would also suggest getting 9:1 or 8.5:1 ratio... for later. You dont want to do things twice with these kind of expensive parts. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you know so much, lets see if you can explain why you run lower compression pistons in higher boost turbo setups

 

If you want you can try Mahle Gold pistons as they are designed to work with the stock FRM sleeves. If I were you though I would just turbo the car. (Don't buy a kit peice it together yourself) Run the usual 6-8lbs for now and save for when you have enough to properly build the engine. Regardless throughout either process you still should have some cash saved up on the side because unexpected things can go wrong and your going to need the money to fix it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why do you guys like to list your mods like that?

When you put it that way it just looks like a waste of money....

If you know so much, lets see if you can explain why you run lower compression pistons in higher boost turbo setups</TD></TR></TABLE>

WOW, If running just na, the higher the compression ratio of your engine.. the higher the octane fuel u have to run. In order to prevent "knock", WHICH just incase you didnt know is pre detination of the air/fuel mixture that goes into each piston housing. Knock is famous for broken crack shafts, blown pistons, and cracked heads. IF you are even more lucky u can crack your engine block. When you run turbos you are thrown more air than normal into the engine. 14psi is almost twice as much of air in the engine than normal. So if you dont lower your compression when u run higher boost engine knock is sure to be a problem. Anything else you need to know bud? continue with your na setup and dont worry your head about this turbo stuff.

 

Another thing is you dont want to go to low because it might cause problems with spooling. The lower the compression the more boost you can run. And BB4ever I might not know as much about cars in general as you but I do know alittle about turbo setups. My brother and I have been doing some research on it. I dont understand why, but you resort to being a Jack *** every moment you get.

 

Firstly, its spelled detonation. Where the hell is the piston housing? Oh you must mean the combustion chamber.

Why does the risk of pre-detonation increase as you shove more air in the cylinder?

In order to not have to lower compression ratio and still run a fuel of given octane, what else can be done to be able to run higher boost and still not detonate?

Now this would be speculating, but I believe that raising the static compression ratio causes the turbo to spool up faster....I'll look into that a bit...

I'm trying to provoke you guys to learn about this stuff before you go preaching it to everyone, don't turn it into a personal attack...thats not my aim.

 

Alcohol and or water injection ... into the "combustion chamber". And obviously u knew what I ment. Thx for the spell check

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Firstly, its spelled detonation. Where the hell is the piston housing? Oh you must mean the combustion chamber.

Why does the risk of pre-detonation increase as you shove more air in the cylinder?

In order to not have to lower compression ratio and still run a fuel of given octane, what else can be done to be able to run higher boost and still not detonate?

Now this would be speculating, but I believe that raising the static compression ratio causes the turbo to spool up faster....I'll look into that a bit...

I'm trying to provoke you guys to learn about this stuff before you go preaching it to everyone, don't turn it into a personal attack...thats not my aim.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll give this a shot . . .

1. More air in combustion chamber = more volume in combustion chamber. More volume(due to boost) means when that air/fuel mixture is pressurized during compression, it's gonna get hotter than normal. This combined with lower octane fuel increases the risk of predetonation.

2. Increase air/fuel ratio AKA run a richer air/fuel mixture.

Then again, I'm on these forums to learn and pass on what I've learned. Please bear with me here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by frompa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> 14psi is almost twice as much of air in the engine than normal. Anything else you need to know bud? continue with your na setup and dont worry your head about this turbo stuff. </TD></TR></TABLE>

^^you are the one starting attacks turbo einstein...14 psi is twice the amount of air the engine sees than if it was n/a???? whatever...yea i guess n/a's run 7lbs of boost

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm trying to provoke you guys to learn about this stuff before you go preaching it to everyone, don't turn it into a personal attack...thats not my aim.</TD></TR></TABLE>

^^exactly

no-one is trying to make you look stupid but if you try and post up some huge explaination on the parameters of turbo engines with your "research" and cant back it up then you make yourself look like a jackass...this happens everyday from politics to penises...and from what youve demonstrated to myself, matt and a few others in the recent past, your research probably came from the pages of super street...

we have nothing against people who turbo or supercharge their engines..we have many friends with turbo cars...even preludes...however, we do have something against morons that slap hairdryers on weak engines and people who assume their experience, limited to reading, is a substitute for real-world experience...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thegeorge613 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'll give this a shot . . .

1. More air in combustion chamber = more volume in combustion chamber. More volume(due to boost) means when that air/fuel mixture is pressurized during compression, it's gonna get hotter than normal. This combined with lower octane fuel increases the risk of predetonation.

2. Increase air/fuel ratio AKA run a richer air/fuel mixture.

Then again, I'm on these forums to learn and pass on what I've learned. Please bear with me here.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nah not quite.....the combustion chamber is only so big, so you can't increase volume in there, however you can increase density, and you do that by increasing pressure.
PV=nRT
P= pressure
V= volume
n= number of moles (for all intents and purposes, call this density)
R= constant
T= temperature

So since V and T remain constant, in order to increase n you must increase P.

I should have been more specific on the second question, basically what I was getting at is that higher boost setups will detonate under less timing, so you cannot run as much timing with the high boost and not run the risk of detonation. A/F is ideally maintained constant for these setups, and timing is adjusted. If you run lower compression pistons, the compressed mixture ends up at a lower heat, which lessens the risk of detonation.

Frompa don't take it so personally, and alcohol/water injection was not what I was looking for. You would use alcohol to up the octane which would work but is not feasible for a street setup. Water injection is used to further cool the intake charge, and isn't necessary if you already have an intercooler in use, though it couldn't hurt. Timing was what I was alluding to, as I said above.

And on the note of double the air or whatever....you have to remember ambient pressure, 1 atmosphere equals 14.7psi, which is ambient pressure. A normal NA engine runs at about 0+14.7psi in the plenum at WOT, 14psi means inside the plenum, there is 14.7+14psi of pressure....how much of that is actually let into the combustion chamber due to the cam setup would require a ridiculous amount of math, you would have to know the VE of the engine at the said point, either way you should know that that estimation is way off....

 

Man, 2 years away from high school physics and I pretty much forgot everything. LOL. I should've remembered the part about adjusting timing, but I didn't.

Oh well, you learn something new everyday. Thanks for the insight.