I have a '96 EX sedan and it needs a new suspension. I need to go with something cost effective since I'm in school at UTI. The set-up I was thinking of going with is, Tokico HP struts, 1" drop Suspension Techniques springs, a Progress 22mm rear sway bar, and a Megan Racing front strut bar. If anybody has any experience with any of these pieces, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Would that size sway bar, with no matching front one, cause any problems? I know it will give the car more oversteer but that's what I'm looking for.

Is there anything else I would need to add to this set-up for a good, balanced suspension?

With these springs would I need a camber kit?

I already have great tires, Yokohama Avid H4S (195 width) but they are on the stock wheels (5.5" wide). Would these tires fit on rims that are 6.5" wide?

Thanks for the help.


Modified by vteclude217 at 12:06 AM 11/17/2006

 

hey i went to UTI too.. already graduated though lol... umm the sway bar will help your back end not roll.. which is always good in cornering and handling.. lol..

 

with a 1" drop i believe that you will not need to get a camber kit. i just recently put on eibach prokit which lowers my car 1.2" all around and i do not need a camber kit for it so i think you will be fine

 

You might need a camber kit but they are cheap. And that sounds like a good setup

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96twofourty &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You might need a camber kit but they are cheap. And that sounds like a good setup</TD></TR></TABLE>

on one inch drop? no.

cheap camber kit is poor in quality, often cost more problem than good.

remember one of the reason you drop a car is to have more negative camber, which help for cornering(more complex than that but i'll save you the lecture this time).
moderate drop is better than too much, almost every lowered honda is over-done, bumpstop riding and dragging bumper everywhere. Good way to blew coupld thousand dollar worth of cash and decreasing the handling of the car

i would skip the HP damper and get AGX instead, they are ten times better for the money. ST also make an excellent sway bar, get the rear only or get the set.
if you on budget then get the rear only. you dont need more understeer on a nose heavy FWD honda. it a good time to swap out the bushing as well, take advantage of the school stuff.

 

I guess I am old-school (very). Before I drop a ton of money into a new system (suspension) I address what REALLY makes the car handle like crap after tons of mileage- bushings and balljoints.

I didn't lower my Accord, but did buy HR progressive springs and used Tokiko struts (I like Tokiko. After installing struts for 25+ years, Tokikos are, for the price, a very, very good strut). I never plan to corner at 120mph, so the setup is very good for street/freeway. Lower away if you want, but do the important stuff FIRST.

A car with shot balljoints/bushings will still vibrate and handle like crap at high speeds, even if you install $3000 in lowering/spring eqpt. The trick is to replace every single bushing in the frame at the same time, and replace the balljoints. Then you will have a lowered car that not only handles well, but doesn't vibrate on the freeway like a dog with the trots. Sometimes you can get around this if the car has lower mileage to start with.

Personally, I like Energy Suspension bushings- the best I have used in 30+ years. You will have to know what you are doing, and some of the bushings/balljoints will need to be pressed in/out at a machine-shop. Expensive? Not too bad, less than the lowering equipment. But why would anyone lower a car with shot out bushings and balljoints? I just don't get it.

Just some words of advice from an "old-fart". I have driven a lot of cars in my life with modifed suspensions, and some "tuner" cars. Most still handled lousy at high freeway speeds due to loose/worn bushings and/or poor quality workmanship. Do it right if you want a great handling car. You might as well, given the time involved with dropping in the springs and struts. Its' already half torn down at that time, finish off the rest at the same time and get it done.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sma_V6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey i went to UTI too.. already graduated though lol... umm the sway bar will help your back end not roll.. which is always good in cornering and handling.. lol.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

for someone who graduated from UTI thats a pretty uninformative answer.

like stated above you should shell out a little bit more cash and get KYB AGX instead. they are better in quality and adjustable. i have never used tokico HPs but my friend had them on his BMW before and they blew on him after about a year. but he was driving them way harder then they were intended for. you should skip the front bar and maybe even rear and use that money for better rim/tire combo. sway bars are more for fine tuning the handling characteristics then ultimately improving overall handling. you should really drive your car at a few auto-x or HPDE events and get a real feel for your car at the limits before deciding on sway bars because there are so many size bars you can go with. also you should ask this question in "suspension theory" or "road race/ autocross" forum for more opinions

 

Blew out a set of Tokikos? Must have been a bad run. I have then on my "freeway-crusier" (2001 Toyota Avalon/upgrade suspension), and that car weighs a ton compared to any Honda. This guy's set must have had some bad seals-

I had a set of KYB (GR-2s) on my Accord- I hated them. All the brake hardware mounts were set up wrong, and the KYB boots and washers were a joke. After only 1 year, one of the boots had blown, one of the pistons was failing, and one of the boot washers had failed so the washer had punched right through the top of the boot. Years ago, KYB used to have the rep as a premiere strut builder, so I really had to wonder.

I realize the AGX are all the rage right now, but I really, really have to wonder. I talked to a few guys I know who work in front-end shops, and they told me what I suspected.

KYB has become a BIG worldwide suppier of OEM struts, but to do this they have to bid cheap as hell to the automakers to get the annual contracts. To do this they have to mammer their suppliers and sub-suppliers for cheaper contracts, so quality dropped.

I am not saying the AGX is not a good strut, only what I have been told, and what I have seen and the fact a few front end guys have told me they have seen the KYB quality drop. Sometimes hype and heavy advertisement take the place of quality workmanship. I hope this isn't the case-in a few years there will be God knows how many pissed off KYB owners that paid big bucks for the KYB line.

I had considered the AGX line, but no way in hell was I going to fork over that kind of dough after the GR-2 fiasco, and as I was so impressed with the Tokikos on the Avalon I threw some on the Accord (so far, very good). Good luck with the AGX.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wrenchy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Blew out a set of Tokikos? Must have been a bad run. I have then on my "freeway-crusier" (2001 Toyota Avalon/upgrade suspension), and that car weighs a ton compared to any Honda. This guy's set must have had some bad seals-

</TD></TR></TABLE>

he had them on a BMW, not a Honda. a 91 325i to be exact. and the reason they blew is because he was running the local canyon/touge extremely hard every weekend. so daily driving plus running them at freeways speeds on uneven and rough mountain roads took its toll on his tokicos and blew em. but dont take this as a diss on tokicos, they were great shocks for what they were amde for. they just wernet deisgned for that level of abuse and performance in mind. now he has koni yellows matched with Ireland Engineering springs (if i remeber correctly they are about 450f/600r) and they are holding up and doing great

 

Thank you everybody for your input. I was amazed the price I found for the Tokico's: $87 a pair at Andy's Auto Sport; for that price I think that's what I'll go with. I have to use this car to go back and forth to school every day, I can't have it apart long, so putting all new bushings in it is a bit impractial. Could I replace some of the easy ones or would that mess something up. My car doesn't really shake at all, cool for a car with 175K on it. I don't plan on auto-xing it, or running it down a mountain road. My main problem is that the struts are shot so I just want a car that doesn't go bouncing and swaying down the road and can take corners at a decent speed. I want to build my 'Lude, so this is just a fun commuter. I might pass on the sway bar for right now.

Do front strut bars really do much?

Does anybody have a answer for my wheel/tire question?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vteclude217 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I already have great tires, Yokohama Avid H4S (195 width) but they are on the stock wheels (5.5" wide). Would these tires fit on rims that are 6.5" wide?
Modified by vteclude217 at 12:06 AM 11/17/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes.

 

well it looks like everyones got you covered, all I got to say is camber kits are for sissies.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboDerrick &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well it looks like everyones got you covered, all I got to say is camber kits are for sissies.</TD></TR></TABLE>

or for people who wants to dial in their alignment specs and people who simply dont want to buy new tires every 6 months.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vteclude217 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do front strut bars really do much?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

unless your tracking your car or driving it hard and at the limits often your nto going to notice or feel any diference. if you want the look of one get a cheap one, if you want to save cash just dont get one at all.

 

Tanabe makes a 30mm sway bar...that should help.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by importfanatic17 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tanabe makes a 30mm sway bar...that should help. </TD></TR></TABLE>

keep in mind tanabe states that due to different manufacturing processes that their sway bars are made you shouldnt comapre stiffness of theiur bars vs other brands based on diameter.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pos_cd5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

keep in mind tanabe states that due to different manufacturing processes that their sway bars are made you shouldnt comapre stiffness of theiur bars vs other brands based on diameter.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good call