I remember being able to swap EG and EK back and forth, does the same apply to EF. From want I recall the inner and outer dimensions remained unchaged untip the EP.

Is this correct?

 

coils? like the springs? no.

 

yes springs. is the ID or OD off? or is it the overall height? I understand that springs from a EG or Ek in most cases would have a higher spring rate for a heavier chassis, but if the springs were being cut for example, would that work?

 

spring length and rates are different.

am i going to stop you from trying? no.

 

lol, thanks, I just wanted to make sure that dimensionally, they are similar enough to swap. I am going to doing something very ghetto, just for a week or so, and actually cut springs like we did back in the old days before you had an actual selection of springs.

I know dumb idea, but I think that if i use springs from a heavier chassis, and don't cut it down too much, I will end up with a lower ride height, but benefit from a higher spring rate/better ride than if i cut the stock CRX springs. It's more of an exercise in theory. And I have an old set of springs sitting around until I get some coilovers from a friend.

 

if you cut any spring, it will get a higher spring rate than it was before.

 

yes of course, but if I start with a taller spring with an already higher spring rate, I could actually see a benefit as oppsed to low ride height, slightly higher spring rate and a droopy spring.

 

well i dont see the sense in any of this, so im not going to try to make sense of what you just said.

good luck.

 

okay, to put it simply, in the old days we cut coils. Big no no nowadays right? what with all the choices out there and the crappy ride that resulted as well as springs that would pop out of place.

I had always figured if you could get the same coils from a different chassis, pref a heavier one (ie DA back then) and cut THOSE instead of the stock EF chassis springs, you could basically get a lower ride height AND an actual good ride, plus see benefits in handling.

So for example, if i wanted the ride height of Eibach Pro kits, but wanted the higher spring rate of the sportline but not the rider height of a sportline - I could in theory order either Sportlines for a DA or trim Prokits for a DA down to the height of an EF prokit spring, but get the higher spring rate.

Get where I'm going with this? Again just a theory and with all the spring combos available, prolly just an exercise in futility.

When I had my Audi, a lot of the guys would get coilovers specified for an S4 for regular Quattro's. Benefit there would be the more aggressive and higher spring rates, but since it's a CO, they could still drop the car to a low rideheight and have a nicer ride.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you cut any spring, it will get a higher spring rate than it was before.</TD></TR></TABLE>

do you not understand this?

are you trying to match stock ride height with a stiffer spring rate??

ah forget it. i dont care. its not cutting springs i have a problem with, its your logic. good luck.

 

I do understand exactly what you are saying.

What is so hard to understand about what I am saying? Use a spring from a heavier car and use that (trimmed) in a lighter chassis.

Better handling without the sacrifice in ride and for dirt cheap. Of course I will still do a "proper" setup, but it is pretty self explanitory. you will still get a better/higher spring rate from a spring designed with a higher rate from the get go.

Stock ride - with lower height.

Edit: Wouldn't the rate increase also depend if the spring has a linear spring rate or progressive? Progressive, yes a cut would increase, linear, no.

 

The spring rate would still increase because you are still using a shorter amount of coil. It's like a adjustable sway bar, where you use a mount hole on the bar that decreases the length of the car increasing the amount of "anti-sway" produced. All a sway bar is in the first place is a uncoiled spring, or a torsion bar, which is also a old school and sometimes still now type of spring used for suspension like on the frist-gen. Integra's. Therefore the same theory follows where you shorten the length you increase the rate. Like trying to bend a foot long metal rod as opposed to a 4 foot metal rod, its all about leverage, with the shorter harder to bend metal rod being a cut/shortened spring(if you were to coil the metal rod).

If anyone would like to correct me please do.

 

I thought about it more and I understand this concept - and you (PACTman) illustrate it well. - the point i'm trying to make is that a longer spring with a higher begining rate will require less cutting to achieve the same increase in rates.

Therefore having to cut less of the spring to achieve the same result.

So do you guys see where I'm going with this?

Perfect example - back in 91 we cut the springs on my stock Si Civic. My friends actually did the work while I was in class. They ended up cutting some rediculous amount 5F and 5.5R. Well another friend same car cut his springs about 2F and 2.5R. His car was stupid bouncy and just felt squirelly on the road.

Mine on the other hand was very firm and planted. Even suprised a CHP officer who pushed down on it thinking it would just bounce. I didn't think about it then - but it illustrates what you guys are saying - I had increased my spring rate a hell of a good amount, but I was also only inches off the ground.

Now if I took a longer spring with the same ID and OD AND higher beginning spring rate - I would have to cut far less of it off to achieve the same result. it is proportional as you said PACTman to the length of the bar being bent. Right?

So what I am trying is a practical application of this theory. Everyone is always swapping all sorts of parts from one year and model Honda to another. This is just another thing that can be done to see a noticable increase in handling for a neglible cost - how many people have stock springs they just give away?

If I am correct, you could take DA, EK, EG or DC stock springs and the right combination of stock shocks (with appropriate LCA's or forks) or even with without needing additional changes to LCA's and forks - add them to an EF (in this case) to have a way better performing suspension - without having to spend upwards of $500 and be all OEM. Especially if it's a daily on a budget, or mostly street with little to no time on a track.

VW guys have been doin this for years - I am just trying to apply this here. And from what I see, tucked bays have been brought over from there already - why not?

Now does anyone not see where I'm going? Or am I still not thinking this through? Please feel free to correct me - I am here to share and be educated as well.

 

You can cut any of those springs and put them on any of the bodys. Make sure to compensate with trimming the bump stop.

 

Damn, trying to put the science behind cutting springs still?? You ghetto dog!!

Just cut em to the height you want, you wont know exactly how things will change when you cut the spring since you are changing a progessive spring. Just do it to change the height and forget about performance, save that for when you have enough dough to actually buy a real suspension!

 

Damnit Roger, gotta spoil my fun. I thought you would dig on this, but i forgot, you don't do "ghetto fab", lol.

Hey i'm just using logic.

 

Maybe Spade will join in, we were discussing and came to the same conclusion.

 

The bottom line is this can be a way to get custom spring rates without having to go to a coilover suspension. Money saved and put to better use. You can apply this to stock springs and even aftermarket springs.

 

how will you know what spring rate you end up with each spring.

youre not saving any money here.

youre on a boondoggle. just go do it. theres nothing left to explain.

 

Okay, I admit, it's not an exact science, and you won't know the exact spring rate - only have an idea of a starting point if you did this with aftermarket springs, again ie DA eibach's for an EF.

But, it's a basic theory, used by others, in other brands, and does have a benefit.

As far as not knowing the exact spring rate, I think that's a trade off, considering most people on this board end up buying CO's for all the wrong reasons, with no idea about spring rates in the first place, when they could get similar results for a lot less cash in the form of stock springs for other chassis or specific aftermarket springs meant for a heavier chassis.

Shadetree 101. It'll work, I'll do it and see for myself. Again, it's just another option for guys on a budget.