well i have a 91 crx si with a dohc zc swap. my friend and i just finished his b16a1 swap into his 89 hatch. he spent around 2500 for the full swap and said that he needed the vtec. we raced the other day and he was very surprized. it was almost a dead even race until after 5000 rpm in 3rd gear. i will see what we both run in the 1/4 at the test and tune up at bandamere speedway. what do you all think of the b16 compared to the zc.

my crx si pics:
http://members14.clubphoto.com/kev56...ner-2362.phtml

 

I've got a grind for the ZC cam if you really want to kick your friend's *** at the track.

 

dont know,but the zc -mini-me post is interesting.makes you think dont it?thats pretty good though.the torque curve.my friend has a mitsu gsx and i told him to drive my car.he laughed at it.i mean his being a dohc all wheel drive turbo.any way he came back from driving my car and got out and said.
dam man the single cam pulls pretty dam hard from 4800 to 6800!
now he has got some respect for my set up.

glad to hear your happy with it man!

no its not a b16,but its dam quick for a non vtec na d-series motor.


[Modified by 4gvtec, 11:35 PM 5/7/2002]

 

still not a fan of the zc just not worth the $$ teh b16 shoulda raped u after about teh 60ft unless he cant drive my d15 has more hp than a stock zc and after the 1/8th mile my buddies b16 pulls away from me after a .2 sec head start due to me bein a better driver at the track...he beats me in teh 1/8 mile by .3 tenths so im pretty sure ur zc isnt killin teh b16 u r killin the driver

 

Had a ZC in my sedan and now I have a b16. The b16 seems to pull harder than my ZC did.

On the ZC i had a 4-2-1 header, iceman intake, and a thermal r&d exhaust. I also had an ACT HDSS clutch and ZC ecu. The best I could run was a 15.7@87

On the b16 I have the iceman and the thermal plus a clutchmasters stage 1 clutch. I am running the S1 trans and Pr3 ecu. The best I have pulled so far is a 14.9@92

The ZC was cool but the b16 is better.


[Modified by 91civic, 8:28 PM 5/7/2002]

 

so what all is done to your d15 ??
130hp from a d15 takes a lot more than just boltons

 

Dude, if you think about it, a B16a has the same horsepower as a ZC till VTEC kicks in, when do you start noticing VTEC? Around 5500 or so in 3rd gear. Like he said he hung with him till 3rd gear. I know from experience that it is true. I have hung with plenty of modded b16a1 and a2s, in hatches and coupes. I can hang with them, and beat some. With just a ZC and exhaust, teg ecu, short shifter, etc.

 

ehhhhhhhh wrong answer d15 with d16a6 cam IHE quoted my mista bone 135 hp at teh crank sorry buddy u loose

 

$2500 for a B16A swap, damn ripped off.... i kept up with my friends ZC CRX, and that was back when i only had the stock 1.6 with I,H,E, and the DOHC ZC ECU...so im sure the B16 would be better, maybe your friend doesnt know how to drive yet?

 

yo...where do u live in colorado? im about to drop a zc into my 88 crx. im in co too.

 

yeah, i do know that i am a better driver and i have a few mods that will help. i still believe the zc was the best bang for the buck. ever since i got it running good with a teg. ecu i have had no problems with it what so ever.

 

I have no experience with b16's but all I know is that I am happy with the performance of my ZC. It pulls really hard, and when I use my 50 shot it just gets better from there.

 

search back a couple of pages for a post i put up. it has a zc vs. b16 dyno graph inside of it. the zc owns the b16, right until vtec kicks in. from there on the zc has no chance. i put the same graph up on http://crx.honda-perf.org and a few people started a discussion of exactly why each motor performs the way they do. good reading.

i got caught by the pigs street racing recently. i ran my buddy with a b16 in his half-gutted crx. i had my girl with me but she's only like 100 pounds. i had him off the line, i kept up through second, but his extra rpm range and mad horsepowerz killed me after that. we only raced partway through third, but, there it is, my experience.

my zc's fun and all and has decent low-mid power, but the b16 is just better. my ls/vtec will be even better then that imo, the b16 swap is a better buy. you will most likely spend a little more money, but when you're ready to build a block you can hike up your displacement and have it ready to bolt in, without having to change trannies and mounts and shift linkage and ****.

that's my shpeal.

 

zc's are great for the money. i ran low 15s with mine in my crx. my friends best time in the car now is a 14.9 na stock block stock head.

 

I've had both the ZC and the B16A. I like both motors, both are a different feel in terms of acceleration. The ZC may get you off the line but the B16 will pull harder in the long run. IMO the ZC is the best upgrade for the buck (and get that cam!)but the B16 is worth the time and effort.

 

well i guess we can all believe what we want.
ive seen mista bone's dyno chart but i still find it pretty hard to believe that i/h/e is gonna give you 30hp over stock on a d15

and if i remember right he ran low low 15s on slicks with that engine where quite a few people have hit a 14s with the zc


i got nothing against a d15 or a zc i just dont think there's as much potential in the 1.5 as there is for the zc

 

i like zc,i mean dont get me wrong b16a is a great motor, i have driven both- zc pulls hella harder till 5500. but for the money, zc is the way to go. just think 700 (tops) for a zc swap compared to 1000(b16a) +300(mounts) +80(linkage) =1380. just think of all that xtra money for zc upgrades .thats just my opinion though!

 

Driver, engine, upgrades, clutch, CAR (civic/crx) etc. SOOOO many variables when comparing cars. I went from ZC to B16a and like BOTH of the motors.

IMO, the ZC was more fun to drive in the city, since I didn't have to wait for VTEC to make decent power. PLUS, I didn't SOUND like i was racing, like you do EVERY time VTEC starts to howl. And it does with FULL exhaust and CAI.

ZC is a great upgrade for the money and effort of install. Just do it right! (no codes) JMO, Overkll

 

This was on a D15B7 out of a 92-95 Car. The 16v D15's in the G5 cars had the better injection, intake manifold, etc.

Mista Bone's HP numbers are totally believable.

And I'll still take a D16A6 over the ZC anyday.


[Modified by Todd00, 1:26 PM 5/8/2002]

 

Seriously man. Do you honestly think that taking a cam from a motor with about 22 less hp than the ZC and putting it in a motor with about 42 less hp than a ZC is going to yeild 5 more hp than a ZC? That math doesn't add up, and a I/H/E doesn't make up the difference (not to mention that the same I/H/E will basically bolt up to the ZC) and yeild at least the same hp percentage.

In the end, I'd be willing to bet that you'd loose by about .7 seconds.


The problem here is that people compare different tracks, dynos, etc. First of all, mista bone is good with tuning and tweaking a motor. Second of all, I've seen him run at the track several times, and you can't compare his times to what most people would get from the same setup. He drives VERY VERY VERY VERY hard. If you think you drive a car hard, go watch him drive and leave feeling like you baby your car. Also note that one of the tracks that he races at (and usually quotes his times from) turns times about .4 quicker than any other track I've run at on a consistant basis. Using one person, with a different motor, using only one dyno chart, who happens to be good at tuning a motor and driving a car isn't a good enough benchmark for you to claim your D15 puts out more power than a ZC.

Who knows what dyno he uses. You can't compare that to a dyno chart from a dyno at another shop or compare it to your motor that has never been dyno'd. Hell, my ZC put 128 at the wheels on only I/E, but I know it doesn't actually have 150hp (or whatever the conversion would be) at the crank.

You need to rethink that claim about the D15. I'm not saying it isn't a good setup, but your claims have about ZERO backing.


I would agree with this, I'd just like to see a ZC on the same dyno same day before we compare the two (not to mention the other factors Todd brings up about the newer D15.


Last edit.... I hope it doesn't sound like I'm knocking mista bone at all. Like I said above, you can't compare yourself to him because he's an exception. He's fast, he drives hard, he tunes well, and he knows what it takes to go fast. The comment about the track being fast is only used to show that you can't compare yourself to someone running in another city at a different time. Post your own #s, not someone elses.

[Modified by therealciviczc, 6:32 PM 5/8/2002]


[Modified by therealciviczc, 6:39 PM 5/8/2002]

 

Mista Bone combo:

D15B7 = 102 HP stock.
Plus...

-91 Si cam
-92-95 Ex intake manifold
-I/H/E
-Cam gear

That combo will put down about 110-115hp at the wheels depending upon tune. Stock D15B7's put down around 90-95. Good little motors IMO.



[Modified by Todd00, 1:41 PM 5/8/2002]

 

if i had #s to post i would but i dont at the moment since im not done why dyno it??? but any ways im pretty confident in my driving i race at the shittiest track in the state of NJ its in the middle of the pinebarrens and teh track plane old sucks i pull a 2.1 60 ft on my street tires with a 15.5 at 86 mph...using a dx trans...all i have is a inatek and header...and of course mpfi...most people running zc motors at this track run around the same times as i do butt they have shitty driving skills .8 RT and descent 60ft ttimes i have a .507 RT and a pretty good 60ft...now when im done ill get it dynoed and all but like u said teh dynos arent teh same and wut not....i was just giving a scenario to go by and it was one that people have seen so its not like its bs

 

Props on the D15 work...I may not be swapping out my D15 for a ZC so quickly.


[Modified by ZCTURBO, 5:27 PM 5/9/2002]