i curious to find out how much clearence the valve have before they touch the pistons on a stock internal(stock cams and usdm pistons) h22?
i am thinking about running a 2 peice head gasket

 

i did...i clayed it to .40, which was what the machine shop guy told me....it increase your compression and fro 75 dollars, its not a bad mod to do

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dek1mfk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i did...i clayed it to .40, which was what the machine shop guy told me....it increase your compression and fro 75 dollars, its not a bad mod to do</TD></TR></TABLE>

Huh? Claying should just verify clearance, not increase compression. Did you have the head milled maybe?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DJ_SaNdOz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Huh? Claying should just verify clearance, not increase compression. Did you have the head milled maybe?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think he's refering to thinning his head gasket. From what I understand OEM honda headgaskets are 3 peices. I guess he's talking about taking out the middle piece maybe?

 

does anybody know what the clearence is between the valves and pistons
intake- exhaust valve to piston clearences??


Modified by alterdcreations at 2:00 PM 11/7/2006

 

i have seen crower and juns being run on stock bottom ends so i know their is alot of room their. does anybody know?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DJ_SaNdOz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Huh? Claying should just verify clearance, not increase compression. Did you have the head milled maybe?</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol...im sorry, i guess my head was milled

 

using a 2 layer gasket; It doesn't give that much, but if you're a compression hunter and any miniscule amount counts its clear. (for the stock cams)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P13_mein &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">using a 2 layer gasket; It doesn't give that much, but if you're a compression hunter and any miniscule amount counts its clear. (for the stock cams) </TD></TR></TABLE>
i am a hunter so i would like to find out.
their are other way of raising compresion

 

What kind of compression bump does removing the middle layer of the headgasket give? Like +.1? I'm thinking about bumping my H23 to 10.0:1

 

If you assume that all the layers are of equal thickness, removing a layer raises the compression ratio about 0.2, give or take.

I'm sure that guy meant milling 0.040" as there's a lot more clearance that that between the pistons and the valves.

 

im 100 percent sure you can get cometic to make you a one piece headgasket to any spec you want to either raise or lower compression..try them

 

don't mill your head if you dont have to

there is enough clearance stock to do what you want to do

claying does not normally give a number on clearance, it merely makes sure there is some

i don't doubt that you could measure the clay, but it wouldn't be very precise at all...

 

You can get a good estimate. There's no real way to measure the clearance and get within 5 tens though, hell you probably couldn't get within 0.003", but you can get "close enough" with clay. I clayed my engine when I was building it, milled the head to optimize squish, and clayed after. My measurements were very, very close, so IMO, if you take your time and do it right, the numbers are easily repeatable.

What I usually do is use a caliper like a depth mic and run the caliper down until it just barely touches the clay. That way, any error is on the conservative side, and the measurement shows less clearance than what is actually available.

There's nothing wrong with milling the head. It's the only option available to optimize squish. A thinner headgasket won't do it, as you'll still have too much clearance.

 

The only reason I am against milling the head is firstly if you change the setup later and need more clearance and two most people forget to account for the difference in timing that results and needs to be adjusted for...

 

People who don't know to account for timing differences when they mill the head shouldn't be building engines.

Then why do anything to the engine if you might change setups later?? If you're going to build an engine, build it right. Optimize what you can and do things the right way. Everything is a compromise, but not milling just because you might change setups later on down the road is not the way to build a good engine, IMO.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There's nothing wrong with milling the head. It's the only option available to optimize squish. A thinner headgasket won't do it, as you'll still have too much clearance.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm with Matt on this one, don't mill if you don't have to. Instead weld the chamber in the squish band area, it can always be machined back out to where it was beforehand. If you deck off .04" you can't put that back.

 

Weld the chambers then have the quench pads machined back out? Now that's a waste of money! You could probably sell the head, buy a used one to build, and have money left over.

How much does that run these days? Welding the chambers is tricky, and if it's not done right, it can ruin the head.

Conventional wisdom was that welding the head required new seats because of the heat put into the head during welding. Is that still true? Welding the chambers isn't cheap, but it's works just as well, although from my measurements, you can't weld the quench pads flush with the head surface. You won't have enough clearance (with stock pistons) if you do that.

If you have the cash, it's probably a better solution, but you have to find the right person to do it.

For me, in the class I planned on running in, you can't do any headwork, but you can mill.

 

my machine shop told me that there is about .070" between the head surface and the combustion area(squish area)
i would take off all of it but a would need to know the total amount clearence.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm with Matt on this one, don't mill if you don't have to. Instead weld the chamber in the squish band area, it can always be machined back out to where it was beforehand. If you deck off .04" you can't put that back.</TD></TR></TABLE>and you can mill all you want. if you go too much then you can build it back up with a thicker head gasket. clay would give enough info so i would be safe (cam gears adjustments)
.

 

hey 117 are you using aftermarket cams and which ones??
how much did you mill?
with that info i should be able to get a close measurement

 

i am not debateing on which is better milling or welding.
i know that for this engine i want to mill as much as possible with out interferance
can anybody give me some info

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alterdcreations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my machine shop told me that there is about .070" between the head surface and the combustion area(squish area)
i would take off all of it but a would need to know the total amount clearence.
and you can mill all you want. if you go too much then you can build it back up with a thicker head gasket. clay would give enough info so i would be safe (cam gears adjustments)
.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that is a horrible idea....a humongous head gasket is just asking to leak, why to ghetto rig it

try editing your posts from now on instead of making 3 in a row

why don't you crunch some numbers if you are so in need of knowing this? figure your cam lift, measure a valve end to end, figure out how much further down the bottom of the valve would be from the stem at full lift, and figure out how much the piston will stick out

how high of a cr are you trying to run? why don't you just get some type s pistons and a thin headgasket, maybe even some flat-face valves....that should put you at about 12:1 on an otherwise stock h22, higher on an h23 vtec....

 

can you say budjet.lol
anyway i dont plan on stacking that much, infact i am loosing one of the three layers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that is a horrible idea....a humongous head gasket is just asking to leak, why to ghetto rig it

try editing your posts from now on instead of making 3 in a row

why don't you crunch some numbers if you are so in need of knowing this? figure your cam lift, measure a valve end to end, figure out how much further down the bottom of the valve would be from the stem at full lift, and figure out how much the piston will stick out

how high of a cr are you trying to run? why don't you just get some type s pistons and a thin headgasket, maybe even some flat-face valves....that should put you at about 12:1 on an otherwise stock h22, higher on an h23 vtec....</TD></TR></TABLE>

to each his own

does anybody have a answer for the question that i asked?
i thought this was a forum were people spread knowledge.
when you clay a engine you are able to find out how much piston to valve clearence in relation to cylinder position is. so at tdc the vtec intake lob starts to open... so i would like to know what that clearence is. on a usdm engine the piston will not stick out of the deck that much or if any so i am not concerned about that.

 

I run stock cams. You need to do a clay test on the engine as is before you do any milling, welding, or any modifications, or you'll be really sorry if there isn't enough clearance after the mods.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alterdcreations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey 117 are you using aftermarket cams and which ones??
how much did you mill?
with that info i should be able to get a close measurement</TD></TR></TABLE>