in between a difficult descision right now i can go turbo on the R motor with eagle rods and wiesco pisions stock bore, with a port and polish head. or go all motor

question is which is more reliable for everyday use????

 

NA!

 

i always here turbo cars are never reliable and na u have to spend so much more money into the car to make it fast but face the facts it will never be as fast as a turbo car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoBo Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i always here turbo cars are never reliable and na u have to spend so much more money into the car to make it fast but face the facts it will never be as fast as a turbo car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is right, but with money, you can make a turbo'ed car reliable.

Cheap, Reliable, and Fast, you can only choose two.
If you want Cheap and Reliable, it won't be Fast.
If you want Cheap and Fast, it won't be Reliable.
If you want Reliable and Fast, it won't be Cheap.

I read that somewhere...

 

What's faster? An all motor car that runs the same all day everyday or a turbo car that a turbo car that is hit or miss on how it runs that day (if it runs at all)? I guess it depends on the day and also depends on what you want to do with it. If you want a car to do rolling street races, turbo is for you. If you want a reliable car that runs the same everyday and you can take to the track without worrying about it blowing up, go na.

You can spend a ton of many either way. But, if you want to make serious all motor power then it will take some big $$$.

I personally went all out with an all motor build. I am very glad that I did. I was able to afford it and the car ran outstanding every time I started it. If I had it to do over again, I would not have changed a thing!

First thing you need to do, figure out what you want to do with the car. Second, SET A BUDGET! Do your homework, make a decision, and have fun!

 

If I had my choice I would want brads set-up!! Not one thing different

 

yea i would really like his setup hey brad quick question how much was it for u to do ur bottom end and what was ur compressionand was the itr ur daily driver and what kind of gas milage did u get, and do u recomend the jdm tranny 4.7 final drive or stick with the usdm tranny 4.4 final drive

 

turbo it for sure...itll be much more powerful than a na motor for much less and as long as u build the bottom end a bit and lower the compression u can run a fair amount of boost and stomp on all the na type rs just make sure to get some good tuning for it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoBo Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea i would really like his setup hey brad quick question how much was it for u to do ur bottom end and what was ur compressionand was the itr ur daily driver and what kind of gas milage did u get, and do u recomend the jdm tranny 4.7 final drive or stick with the usdm tranny 4.4 final drive</TD></TR></TABLE>

On comp Brad was running 11.6 and he ran ATS 4.928 FD. He car was not a daily driver but it could. Gas milage (he'll have to answer this). How much for the bottom end (he'll have to answer this one too) I think it was $2000 to $3000. Anyway he spend about $10000 on everything (EMS, header, intake and everything that he need it to built that car.)

Here is a list on Brad's old car (motor):
85mm bore
89mm stroke
Carrillo Rods
Wiseco +2cc pistons (11.6:1)
RLZ Stage 3 head
RLZ Stage 3 cams
RLZ Single valve springs
JG Intake manifold
Stock ITR TB
Mugen intake
RC 370cc injectors
AN-R header with 3" collector
Thermal 3" exhuast
ATS 4.9 FD
Clutch Masters stage 3 clutch
Toda flywheel
Toda timing belt
Toda cam gears
Drive Shaft Shop stage 3 axles
AEM EMS

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoBo Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea i would really like his setup hey brad quick question how much was it for u to do ur bottom end and what was ur compressionand was the itr ur daily driver and what kind of gas milage did u get, and do u recomend the jdm tranny 4.7 final drive or stick with the usdm tranny 4.4 final drive</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't remember the price for just the bottom end. It was re-sleeved and bored to 85mm. I did not daily drive the ITR but very well could have. There were times where my truck was in the shop and I would daily drive it for a week or so. I got about 22-24mpg depending on how I drove it. On the track, it got about 8 mpg. I would recommend the ATS 4.9 FD, which is what I ran in my old ITR.

Again, all motor is not the fastest. There are plenty of boosted cars I walked away from on the street but it was not the fastest thing out there. Again, if you want a fast street racing car, go turbo. If you do go turbo, be ready for all of the headaches that go along with it. I've had MANY Hondas over the years including a swapped turbo'd EG. After building my ITR, I would never own another boosted Honda.

 

What would be the bare necessity for going 2L?
In other words, if one was at the point of needing a rebuild on an otherwise untouched motor, but did not necessarily want to go $10,000 in...whats a reasonable build?
Can it be done in "stages", with intentions of the end result being mostly like yours over the course of 2 or 3 years?

 

Source a B18A/B18B block w/crank. You should be able to find one for $200.

Send it to Benson Machine in California, PM Earl here on H-T.

This is the quote I recieved 2 years ago when I built my bottom end:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Breakdown..
$950 Benson Sleeves install/cylinder hone
$150 Benson balanced/micropolished crank
$495 CP Pistons and rings
$715 Pauter Rods
$100 ACL bearings
$250 OEM oil/water pump
$50 Gasket/seal set
$490 Blue print and assembly
$125 USA (lower 48) delivery
&gt; $3325...Total</TD></TR></TABLE>

Prices may have changed since then, but should be roughly the same.

You can run a built bottom end with your stock head. I made 215/150 with a stock ITR head, cams, TB, IM and even stock intake arm & filter!

If you have the desire to make more power after, you can build the head.

 

With Rods and pistons your car is going to be pretty reliable. The things that are going to break are going to be little things, so with the right maintenance, it wont really be a problem.

 

NA alllllllllllllllllllll the way!

 

I'll ride this fence forever, I'll probably be on it so long that I'll end up doing neither. great.

 

I prefer all motor. But either or is good as long as you do it right.

 

These all motor guys are so funny. All motor 4 cylinder LOL!

Bolt on turbo kit and great tuning could never even be a close match to a $10,000 all motor build. It would be a joke on the street and on the track.

If you think im just talking outof my @$$ or I have no clue what im talking about just go hit up your local dragway and look around for al the street races. talk to people, see what they are doing. Compare. Decide.

I gauruntee you there are more turbo hondas then there are all motor, its for a reason. Also another reason why there are 4x as many posts in the FI forum then the all-motor forum here.

 

an idiot can go fast with a turbo

it takes intelligence to build a fast NA

if turbos rule, then tell me why there are some low 200whp NA running high 12s and it takes a turbo around 300-400 to hit the same time?

 

Bobo....if i have told u once, i have told you a thousand times....NA all the way. Son, turbo is for icey hot stunnas....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C Turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">These all motor guys are so funny. All motor 4 cylinder LOL!</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is exactly what im thinking, 4 cyclinders arnt going to get you anywhere all motor!, and if it does its going to cost you more then its worth at the end.

Its cool if people want to add a little power to their cars and get 200whp, just to have more fun with the car. You can probably do it for around a thousand dollars (assuming you have an itr) if you use used parts. But if you want anything more then that, turbo your car, or just go buy another car.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by type B16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">an idiot can go fast with a turbo

it takes intelligence to build a fast NA</TD></TR></TABLE>

This isnt True. Turbo takes alot of intelligence to do right too. Also alot of people want to see a significant gain for all the work and money they spend on their car, and an all motor four banger doesnt really seem worth it to most people

 

I'm assuming B18C Turbo and SiR99 have never been on a road course. If you have, please tell me this, are there more N/A Hondas or Turbo Hondas?

You can go have fun at your street races and drag strips. Who even brought up the subject of straight line speed anyways? Last time I checked, the ITR wasn't meant to go fast in a straight line, but rather surprise the expletive out of Z06's on the track (and by track I mean the one where you use your steering wheel). Also, the OP was looking for something more fun and reliable for the street, not some weekend street racer.

To the two knuckleheads who only think one dimensionally, if you want to build a drag car, ditch your four cylinder Honda. (lets see if you can catch the paradox)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92TypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To the two knuckleheads who only think one dimensionally, if you want to build a drag car, ditch your four cylinder Honda. (lets see if you can catch the paradox)</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

all motor was fun. turbo is fun. both have their pros and cons. the key is doing both THE RIGHT WAY so you have a solid setup. either one can break just as easily as the other. when I was all motor, I always wanted to go faster. now that Im turbo, Im scared to go faster lol. I honestly cant imagine my car on a road course right now, Ill be scared of it. Expo is going to be interesting.

 

All motor setup will get you a lot more respect in all aspects. A good example is racing on the highway against a supercharged mustang, he pulls 2 cars or so on me at first, then it stayed at 2-3 lengths the whole time. I got off the interstate he flashed his lights at me and signaled me into a gas station, where we talked for 30 minutes and i had to convince him i was not turbo. He was very very very impressed and loved my car. Also i get a lot of V8 guys saying "that is one quick 4cyl, are you NA?" and all i can do is laugh. But the problem with this, is that you can get around 250 whp with a lot of money on an all motor setup and that is as fast as it will be, while a turbo done right can be very streetable on a stock motor from 7-9lbs and produce 270-300whp and has room for improvement (boost controller).
You then have to take into perspective, what you are using the car for? A road racing/ autocross track is usually a lot more NA friendly, but there are plenty of cars that do a turbo FWD track car and have succedded. A highway car, street racing car, drag car are USUALLY the place where turbo cars are most seen. Again, if you limited your turbo to around 270-290whp with around 190-200ft/tq then it could be a great track car with some practice, the right suspension, and some good cooling to make sure the car and turbo set up can handle the heat.

Me personally, I was orignally planning a 230hp all motor car, but now i figure, if i spend the same money or less i can have a reliable turbo that is done right and very capable of being a DD. My caR is used as a DD and i autocross it sometimes. I would like to get into more road racing later down the road, but the limited spots around here make me kinda steer clear, even though a short drive to road atlanta would change things. I use the car 90% of the time on the road, and driving fast is always a great experience if it is done in the right enviroment, so i plan on doing a 270-300hp turbo car and TRYING to make it very streetable and trackable. A good all around car is what i am looking for, and i know it can be had with an all motor car too, but turbo is the route i am going for.

It is really a personal choice and is decided by what you are going to use the car for. Do some research on both setups, think about what you want to do with YOUR car, and then decide if your want NA or Turbo. Look at both sides of the spectrum very hard before any decisions are made!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C Turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">These all motor guys are so funny. All motor 4 cylinder LOL!
</TD></TR></TABLE>


yea, thats right, a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder, who would ever of thought of such a stupid idea!


you obviously have no taste if you can't appreciate a well tuned 4 cylinder for what it is


the only friend of mine who has turbo'd an ITR has had NOTHING but grief. dear lord it was fast in a straight line, when it was running. but thats all it was.