I'm considering what to do with my LS'es rear sway bar... Bushings are really cheap and I hear they make a big improvement, but I would think an aftermarket rear sway bar would be better. What do you think of the Skunk2 rear sway bar (21mm, iirc)? Should I just go with bushings instead? I want better handling on the current (stock) suspension, but I plan to eventually get good springs and shocks.

Where can I get aftermarket bushings and sway bars? I found that optauto.com sells the Skunk2 bar for a good price, but their site was having technical problems when I went to order. Overboost.com's store sells the bushings, but they are having serious technical problems (their page says it's a Verisign secure connection, but I can clearly see that it's plain HTTP and not encrypted at all, plus I got 404's a few times too). Are there other places to buy from, or am I just going to have to wait for them to hire compitent IT people (and/or throw out their junk M$ server software)?

 

itr rear sway bar. best bang for the buck and it's factory.

 

What's the going rate for the ITR rear sway bar? and how difficult is the install?

 

sounds like another BSQ and Beaks kit question https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=172709
but you will need a mounting kit either BSQ or Beaks, for a lil more *like $30* you can get the JDM ITR 23mm one *hmmmmmm....sweet*

 

I would highly discourage against using the Skunk2 rear swaybar. It has caused subframe tearout...go to https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=175001 for an example. The Type-R rear swaybar is much safer and less expensive (approx. $120 for everything required to install the Type-R rear swaybar).

 

What is the usual cause of subframe tearout? What makes the ITR rear sway bar less prone to this problem than the Skunk2? And would the ITR rear sway bar be a good/bad idea on an LS, considering my stock front sway is also 22mm (not 24mm like GSR/Type-R)? If I get an ITR rear sway bar, should I bother upgrading to a 24mm GSR/Type-R front sway bar? In other words, how big of a difference does that 2mm make? Thanks!

 

Has anyone heard of the rear bar having clearance problems with an aftermarket exhaust? Namley the HKS hiper that I have on my 95 rs. Will it fit?

 

The cause of subframe tearout is when the larger swaybar is mounted AWAY from the subframe. When the swaybar is mounted in this fashion, the swaybar is able to exert torque on the subframe and this stresses (ie. flexing back and forth) the mounting points and eventually causes the mounting points to pull away from the subframe.

As with anything, an increased amount of leverage makes it easier to do work. This is governed by the lever law: force x distance = torque. As distance--or the length of the lever--increases, the resulting amount of torque also increases. (This is why it was easier to move your big brother on the teeter-totter when he moved towards the middle and you stayed out on the end. You enjoyed increased leverage at the end, while he suffered from reduced leverage near the middle.)

The proper way to mount a large swaybar is to mount it DIRECTLY to the subframe (eg. Integra Type-R - see picture below). This prevents the torque and stress on the subframe. Go to my webpage at http://www.geocities.com/bretq/swaybar_install.html for instructions for installing the Type-R rear swaybar DIRECTLY to the subframe. Below is a picture which shows the Type-R rear swaybar installed on the my '94 GS-R (notice how it look nearly identical to the Type-R)

Picture of Integra Type-R:


Picture of a non-Type-R Integra with the Type-R rear swaybar installed:


Larger image: http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...d.jpg.orig.jpg


I have sold my Type-R rear swaybar mounting kit to a lot of people with a 22mm front swaybar (RS/LS/GS/SE owners) and I haven't heard any unfavorable comments about the handling with the 22mm front and 22mm rear swaybar. I have been asked the question before about upgrading to the 24mm front swaybar and I always suggest installing the Type-R rear 22mm rear swaybar first and then seen how the handling "feels" to you. If the handling "feels" fine (ie. neutral handling -- no understeer and no oversteer), then I wouldn't upgrade the front swaybar. But if the handling is not to your liking (ie. oversteer) then you can easily upgrade the front.

You may want to post a message and ask the people with both a 22mm front and 22mm rear swaybar how they like their setup.

Hope this answered your questions. Let me know if you have any more.

 

BSQ, thanks for the pics. I've been wondering what the itr bar looked like and how it mounted. I have the ST 19mm bar on my LS . I couldn't tell from the picture but where do the ends of the bar mount? mine mount to the bottom of the strut and my bar is pretty straight and has virtually no bends in it.. I have no first hand knowledge of which is better but to answer the question of whether 2mm makes any difference I would answer that it is NOT the thickness of the bar but the design that make the difference. There was a pic of I think the skunk2 bar that was shiny red and had all kinds of bends in it and looked like crap.
thanks!!

 

I have heard of some aftermarket rear swaybars and exhaust system having clearance problems. But if you do not have any clearance problems with the stock rear swaybar and your HKS Hiper then you will not have any problems with the Type-R rear swaybar. The reason being, is because the Type-R is the exact same shape as the stock swaybar, but with an increased diameter.

 

The ends of the Type-R rear swaybar connect to the stock endlinks which mount to the center of the LCA.


Oh contrare..."There are two primary factors that determine an anti-roll bar's torsional stiffness: the diameter of the bar and the length of the bar's moment arm. Diameter is generally the easiest concept to grasp, as it is somewhat intuitive that a larger diameter bar would have greater torsional rigidity.

Torsional (or twisting) motion of the bar is actually governed by the equation: twist = (2 x torque x length)/(p x diam4 x material modulus.) And since the diameter is in the denominator, as diameter gets larger, the amount of twist gets smaller. Which, in a nutshell, means that torsional rigidity is a function of the diameter to the fourth power. This is why a very small increase in diameter makes a large increase in torsional rigidity." This was taken directly from http://www.grmotorsports.com/antirollbars.html which is a very good article on swaybars (I highly recommend that everyone reads it...good reading and very imformative).



[Modified by BSQ, 11:39 AM 5/2/2002]

 

sorry, BSQ, let me re-phrase myself. 2 bars of equal shape but different thickness , the thicker bar is stronger. However, I believe my 19mm ST bar would be better ( in the effectiveness department ) than the ITR bar for the reason you stated that you get better leverage the further out you apply the leverage. Since my 19mm bar mounts out further ( all the way to the bottom of the struts and not just half way down the LCA ) I should get better leverage ( less understeer ) than the itr bar. I know I have to be careful going too fast into turns so I don't sling my rear end around ( especially around curves when going downhill ). I have the stock front bar still and stock suspension.

 

The lever arm in question is not the length of the LCA, but rather the lengths of the ends of the sway bar. You will notice all sway bars make an approxomate 90-degree bend at the end where the ends attach. The length of this end section is one factor in determining how stiff the bar is. Adjustable bars have more than one hole in the ends, the closer to the main part of the bar you mount the end links, the less leverage the car can exert on the bar and the less prone to twisting the bar will be. HTH

Oh also, my friend's DX Civic (no stock sway bars) has ST bars front and rear. He loves it, says it was a great buy.

 

I was not questioning the lever point but the length of the bar past the lever point has more to do with the effectiveness of the bar. I believe the lever point on a sway bar is at the frame mounts ( as stated the lever point being the bar a seesaw teeters on ) and not the ends of the bar where it mounts. The ST bar can apply more leverage being that it mounts further away from the lever point than the ITR bar. My bar didn't have any 90 deg bends in it . just maybe the 30 deg bend on each side to where it mounted. I believe my bar would be more effective in the way it was designed to mount further out than a 44mm itr could be because the further mounted bar could more easily counter balance the force applied from one side of the car to the other which is what happens when you make a turn, one side wants to lift and the bar tries to counter that lift. Think of 2 big people sitting closer in on a seesaw versus them sitting at the ends. It would take a hell of a lot more force on one side of the seesaw to lift the other side ( or in terms of the sway bar , more force needed to stop the other side from lifting ) if you started adding weight to one side with them sitter closer in that if they were sitting further out.

 

To Bama Teg:
I am reading this , and would want to comment on this if u dont mind.
I understand what u are saying that, the further away the endlinks are, the more torque it will create. Since this will create more torque, the bar is easier to twist. Right? So after all, why would people want to use a thicker sway bar? It is to reduce twisting force. So in other words, the harder to twist the bar, the less body roll we will get, the easier to twist the bar, the more body roll we will get. In other words, the clooser the endlink are to the center, the more effective the sway is.