Should I give up hope of ever trying to squeeze any performance out of it? Does anyone think this thing is capable of producing any significant power? A friend of mine just slapped a turbo on his 1998ish Honda civic, had parts of the engine rebuilt, and his civic (even though its an auto) is raping people left and right. I guess it responded really well to the turbo and rebuild. So my question, should I start rebuilding the internals and wait for a good turbo kit to come out, or should I just say expletive it and let this thing stay the grocery-getter it already is?

 

The latter.

 

It's a little early for the final word on the R18. My advice is that if you want something with a lot of power, get something that has a motor that is supported by the aftermarket.

There will be stuff for the R18, it just takes time. So, for now, just drive it.

Just me....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DougNuts &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's a little early for the final word on the R18. My advice is that if you want something with a lot of power, get something that has a motor that is supported by the aftermarket.

There will be stuff for the R18, it just takes time. So, for now, just drive it.

Just me....</TD></TR></TABLE>


this man speaks the truth. i'm sure someone will make some good mods for the R18 but like he said... it's going to be a while.

 

x3

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SeanJohn1802 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">x3</TD></TR></TABLE>

We're all happy you're here to help

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DougNuts &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There will be stuff for the R18, it just takes time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldn't bet on it. Why would any company produce serious power-enhancing modifications for the base engine, when the K20 has so much more potential? Notice that every older Honda that makes serious power has a B18 or H22 in place of the stock D-series?

Furthermore, and I'm sure this will become evident as time passes, the r-series was most likely designed with fuel economy first, and everything else a distant second. A lot of companies are going that route. Take my Nissan SE-R, for example; at first glance, a compact sedan with a 2.5L 4cyl would probably have tons of potential, right? Unfortunately, all the important bits that are essential for higher-HP are designed for economy instead: valve springs so weak, they can be compressed between your fingers, pencil-thin connecting rods to save weight and reduce reciprocating mass, the list goes on. The end result: a Nissan QR25DE with I/H/E/Cams/and the balance shafts removed barely clears 200whp, starting from a baseline of 175 at the crank. The engine can't handle F/I without exploding, so any serious power is impossible without a rebuild.

I wouldn't expect any forthcoming mods for the Honda R18 to be anything more than placebos...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why would any company produce serious power-enhancing modifications for the base engine, when the K20 has so much more potential?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because they've done it in the past perhaps?


Modified by n3twrkm4n at 8:18 AM 9/20/2006

 

If its a honda motor, it will get good mods sooner or later. You're driving a new civic, that has a new si model as well... once mods are pretty much burned out on the SI, the R18 will rise to the occasion. I'm willing to bet that little motor can pump out some power. Also it will learn from mistakes made on the SI as far as ecu and DBW stuff goes.

 

i most def think it has hope and in fact will make a decent amout of power...i mean just think the d series, people turbo them from what about a 110hp and are up around 180-190 in most cases with the needed mods for F/I....

 

I have to believe that the R series will not be any different from the past, every Honda for a long time now has had awesome attention from the mod world and I dont think that will ever change. Working for the dealer like I do, we get calls quite frequently asking if we would carry aftermarket performance parts, so people are definitely out there to make them, and lets face the customer base demand for performance is there!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R18A1FG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have to believe that the R series will not be any different from the past, every Honda for a long time now has had awesome attention from the mod world and I dont think that will ever change. Working for the dealer like I do, we get calls quite frequently asking if we would carry aftermarket performance parts, so people are definitely out there to make them, and lets face the customer base demand for performance is there!</TD></TR></TABLE>

i noticed in your sig it says you have a modded ecu...what did you do with it if i may ask?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sugar Shane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't bet on it. Why would any company produce serious power-enhancing modifications for the base engine, when the K20 has so much more potential? Notice that every older Honda that makes serious power has a B18 or H22 in place of the stock D-series?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

everything that has been made for the b series and h series has also been made for the d series...ive seen some pretty impressive d series builds so i would bet on aftermarket for the r18s

 

Anyone have a pic of the exhaust side of an R-series head?
Maybe the new L-series as well, or instead.

Doesn't look like it will accept a conventional "header".

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sugar Shane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Take my Nissan SE-R, for example; at first glance, a compact sedan with a 2.5L 4cyl would probably have tons of potential, right? Unfortunately, all the important bits that are essential for higher-HP are designed for economy instead: valve springs so weak, they can be compressed between your fingers, pencil-thin connecting rods to save weight and reduce reciprocating mass, the list goes on. The end result: a Nissan QR25DE with I/H/E/Cams/and the balance shafts removed barely clears 200whp, starting from a baseline of 175 at the crank. The engine can't handle F/I without exploding, so any serious power is impossible without a rebuild.

I wouldn't expect any forthcoming mods for the Honda R18 to be anything more than placebos... </TD></TR></TABLE>

And therefore, those "rebuild" parts were designed and slowly came to the market for your Nissan, as there will be too for the R18 engine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpa06 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And therefore, those "rebuild" parts were designed and slowly came to the market for your Nissan, as there will be too for the R18 engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Right, and after you're done purchasing the turbo kit, new valvetrain components, tougher pistons, connecting rods, shorter-stroke crankshaft, head gasket, studs, fasteners, etc. and paid to have the engine rebuilt and the turbo kit put on and tuned, what do you have? A car that cost you more money and time than you would have spent if you had just bought a faster car in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not anti-modification by any means, but when it gets to the point where the time and money spent on making a base Civic as fast as an Si, why not just get the Si? The guys who make their SE-Rs noticeably faster end up spending more than they would have to get a 350Z. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sugar Shane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Right, and after you're done purchasing the turbo kit, new valvetrain components, tougher pistons, connecting rods, etc............. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Trust me, I see where you're coming from but you are missing a big point. What percent of Civics will be sold with the R18? I'm guessing over 80%, and this guy already has one in his garage.

I love working on cars, buying parts and making them better. There are a lot of people with that same disease and it's how we end up with 450whp D-series civics that have more $$ invested in the turbo system than most people would pay for the car that the turbo is installed on.

It doesn't make sense and you are right, but there is no room for common sense in this hobby.

The fact remains that there is already a market for R18 parts and they will come to market, eventually. The OP wanted to know if there is any hope of squeezing more performance out of the car that is currently in his garage and the answer is yes, but just not yet. When these cars get out on the used market and more people can afford to start messing with them, the parts will roll out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DougNuts &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Trust me, I see where you're coming from but you are missing a big point. What percent of Civics will be sold with the R18? I'm guessing over 80%, and this guy already has one in his garage.

I love working on cars, buying parts and making them better. There are a lot of people with that same disease and it's how we end up with 450whp D-series civics that have more $$ invested in the turbo system than most people would pay for the car that the turbo is installed on.

It doesn't make sense and you are right, but there is no room for common sense in this hobby.

The fact remains that there is already a market for R18 parts and they will come to market, eventually. The OP wanted to know if there is any hope of squeezing more performance out of the car that is currently in his garage and the answer is yes, but just not yet. When these cars get out on the used market and more people can afford to start messing with them, the parts will roll out.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Couldn't agree with you more. It's an unexplainable/uncontrollable hobby. And the bottom line is, no matter how slow/fast one thinks the base Civics are, it's a Civic, and for being a Civic, there will be plenty parts eventually. Let's not forget that a Civic is what started the whole import craze after all. It is the grand daddy of all tuner cars. Not the fastest, not the most hi-tech, but definitely the most popular even after all these years.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sugar Shane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I wouldn't bet on it. Why would any company produce serious power-enhancing modifications for the base engine, when the K20 has so much more potential? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly why would you say something like that? Everything is out for the Si because its motor has been sitting in an RSX for 5 years.

The R18 is a brand new engine. That engine comes with plenty of sensors meaning that if i was an aftermarket company i would use trial and error to make sure i develop i good product and not make those sensor trip... THAT TAKES TIME.

and as for more potential? i cant say i totally agree yet. no one has seen a fully built R18. Just because a car comes with more HP that another doesnt mean it has more potential

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sugar Shane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Right, and after you're done purchasing the turbo kit, new valvetrain components, tougher pistons, connecting rods, shorter-stroke crankshaft, head gasket, studs, fasteners, etc. and paid to have the engine rebuilt and the turbo kit put on and tuned, what do you have? A car that cost you more money and time than you would have spent if you had just bought a faster car in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not anti-modification by any means, but when it gets to the point where the time and money spent on making a base Civic as fast as an Si, why not just get the Si? The guys who make their SE-Rs noticeably faster end up spending more than they would have to get a 350Z. Doesn't make sense to me. </TD></TR></TABLE>


i agree. the amount of time and money spent on making your r18 only make 200hp you could probably have spent half that to just swap in a k20. im not saying you cant do it or you shouldn't because only you can decide what you want to do with your car. but im saying why would you want to? it just not smart. unless you're really into this r18 engine.

 

You guys like to compare apples to oranges? If everyone who bought an Si wanted an DX, LX or EX there wouldn't be any Si's and if everyone who bought an DX, LX or EX wanted an Si there wouldn't be any of those models either. They are obviously for two different market segments. Why even try to compare how long an engine might last on the market.

**** the GM 3800 Engine has been around for decades and has sold millions, while the engine in a Dodge Viper might be powerful and have it's niche it hasn't satisfied the general consumer.

Take a damn class in marketing, the general population doesn't care about performance, high octane gas, or how quick they can go around a corner. They want a safe, reliable vehicle to get them from point a to point b.

Obviously distinctions need to be made, so stop trying to meld two different 'cultures' into one. It's like saying that Ferrari is marketing to your grandmother.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by n3twrkm4n &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You guys like to compare apples to oranges? If everyone who bought an Si wanted an DX, LX or EX there wouldn't be any Si's and if everyone who bought an DX, LX or EX wanted an Si there wouldn't be any of those models either. They are obviously for two different market segments. Why even try to compare how long an engine might last on the market.

**** the GM 3800 Engine has been around for decades and has sold millions, while the engine in a Dodge Viper might be powerful and have it's niche it hasn't satisfied the general consumer.

Take a damn class in marketing, the general population doesn't care about performance, high octane gas, or how quick they can go around a corner. They want a safe, reliable vehicle to get them from point a to point b.

Obviously distinctions need to be made, so stop trying to meld two different 'cultures' into one. It's like saying that Ferrari is marketing to your grandmother.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what the hell are you talking about? no one is talking about how the r18 will sell. we're talking about whether it would be a good engine for performance purposes. of course its not what is was meant for. people are just making the arguement that it would just be easier to spend your time and money on swaping a k-series engine instead of wasting your time on the r18.

you need to take a damn class in comprehensive reading.

 

You just validated my point... why even try to discuss the k engine vs the r engine for performance? It seems that you sir need the class in comprehensive reading. The purpose of each car is different. The k engine is appealing to puberty stricken individuals as well as those testosterone injected motor heads who want to modify their cars. The r series engine is those looking for good fuel economy and reliable transportation. It wasn't meant to be a performance engine, so there should be no reason that people are bitching about the lack of performance parts. Not to mention that the damn motor is new.

Why not buy a real race car, if everyone is that concerned with horse power. No matter how you dress a Civic up it is always going to be a Civic. You want performance you're going to pay for it. People take pleasure from modifying their civics to their hearts content, and the Si gives people that ability. The r series engine is not intended to provide that same venue.

I apologize if you did not pickup on a marketing analogy. Although perhaps if you need that reading and comprehension class you might have a difficult time disecting parts of the english language.

And just remember arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, no matter if you win, you'll still be retarded. I was making my point, because you chose to be defensive and not try to understand where I am coming from... well that is your own fault.

G'day.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by n3twrkm4n &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, no matter if you win, you'll still be retarded.</TD></TR></TABLE>

best line EVER

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Demonis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If its a honda motor, it will get good mods sooner or later. You're driving a new civic, that has a new si model as well... once mods are pretty much burned out on the SI, the R18 will rise to the occasion. I'm willing to bet that little motor can pump out some power. Also it will learn from mistakes made on the SI as far as ecu and DBW stuff goes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is very true, all Honda has to do is make the motor, and soon enough the upgrades will follow...