So I start up my car for the 4th time for the day.

It idles rough. If I tap on the gas it bogs sometimes bad enough to stall. If I finess the throttle enough to get it up to 3-4k RPM I can go to WOT and rev all the way up to 6k without hickup. I'm not showing any CEL's, my plugs look ok, checked cap and rotor.... had a shop look and they couldn't figure it out. We pulled the EGR looked at the valve and plugged the port.. nothing. We swapped MAP sensors.. nothing. He unplugged the TPS and it was doing the same thing. He said it was probably the TPS.

I pulled out the Honda Service Manual and go through the TPS flow chart.

Reset ECU
Start car
Ignition OFF
Pull 3P connector
Ignition ON
Pulled the connector and check the Yellow/White to the Green/White wires
Says ~5v

After that the flow chart says use a ECU service terminal... that I don't have and I don't want to cut the harness just so I can test this.

It smells very rich when the car does start and idles. Does this sound like a TPS to anyone else? It is definatley a Fuel issue.

Thanks


Modified by darkspector2.0 at 2:38 PM 9/1/2006

 

nobody? ahah

 

Im not positive dude, but you should look into your timing belt. Sometimes it can cause your car to not advance like it should.

 

I've replaced the throttle body and still having problems. Any more ideas?

 

Maybe a vaccum leak? When you said its running rich I was thinking maybe you o2 sensor, but that would throw a code.

 

don't know where it would be leaking from

 

This really sound like a MAP sensor / O2 problem to me. Could be vaccum also. Those are the 3 top in my book. Keep messin with them all. Not throwing any codes? Is the bulb working? (you never know). Black or dark gray smoke? Doesn't sound like a TPS problem to me! When mine was bad the symptoms were totally different.


Modified by MadCityLude at 7:30 PM 8/31/2006

 

MAR sensor... or MAP sensor

 

lol oops MAP sensor!

 

Already tried another map sensor... same thing... damn... wish I had another ECU right about now

 

Took off the VC everything seems ok underthere, cam gears look ok and timing looks ok...

Still smells rich.... could the o2 go bad and not give a CEL??

My top 2 right now are ECU or o2

 

first thing I always check when someone has a problem like this are the battery pos and neg terminals, alternator pos terminal and ground, and engine grounds. If your dropping voltage somewhere where your not supposed to you run high risk of affecting driveability sensors. Checking battery terminals and grounds is commonly overlooked by alot of mechanics, and alot of times its the root of the problem.

 

swap the map and tps connectors.

meaning, put the map connector onto the TPS connector and the TPS connector onto the map sensor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">swap the map and tps connectors.

meaning, put the map connector onto the TPS connector and the TPS connector onto the map sensor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

alright... but what does that do?

 

both of them are the same connectors and will plug into each other without throwing a CEL. and obviously the car wouldnt run right since the TPS and MAP sensors would be getting the wrong voltage.

 

oh ok, yeah no that didnt work...

I'm now noticing that before(when prob first started) I heard a low groan from the fuel pump when I turned the ignition on. Now... I don't even hear it.. and the car doesn't even turn over now.

Could the fuel pump have been dying and just finally gave up?

 

but then again that could be a bad ECU or... otherthings.. this thing is pissing me off... LOL I wish it wold just throw a damn CEL

 

any other opinions?

 

myne has tha same problem..but it goes through batterys like a MF!..even after i drove it for like..30 miles..as soon as i cut it off..and tried 2 crank it again..it was dead and not runnin rite...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xplyboigurlx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">myne has tha same problem..but it goes through batterys like a MF!..even after i drove it for like..30 miles..as soon as i cut it off..and tried 2 crank it again..it was dead and not runnin rite...</TD></TR></TABLE>

yours sounds like the alternator....


I was also thinking... maybe the main relay?

 

I doubt it's the main relay. if it was bad, you wouldn't be able to start it up at all. what motor are you running? I think I have a spare p13 and p14 (I think I have a p12 too )sitting in the garage.

I say do a tune up first before checking on other things ie:plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, etc.

after this, you can start ruling things out.

also jump the service connector to see if you have any hidden codes.

also check to see if you're getting a strong spark. my buddies' car wouldn't start sometimes, and when it did start, it would start bucking like crazy.

3 main things for an engine to start up, timed spark, compression, fuel. make sure you have the correct firing order(I've made this mistake one time so I've learned from my mistake )

I doubt it's a vacuum leak considering you'll have an irratic idle at most with a vacuum leak.

if you think it's a fuel delivery problem, make sure your fuel pump is priming and make sure you're getting fuel pressure through your fuel rail/injectors.

you have any mods or is this car stock? any recent maintenence work done on the car? we need more details.

 

Fuel filter is relatively new, checked cap and rotor and they seem to be ok, plugs look ok also.

Checked service connector and no codes

Timing belt is taut and the cam marks line up with eachother. Don't have a compression tester or a fuel pressure gauge right now and I haven't changed the firing order since it was working.

When the problem first started I could hear a low grown from the fuel pump like it was struggling.. now it doesn't start and I don't hear anything from the fuel pump. So I don't know.

The car is stock say for i/h/e... but that wouldn't do anything. And no recent maintenece work. The car was working fine for the majority of the day... and when I got of work to go home... it crapped out.

Where in WA are you... maybe we can arrange something and i can try another ECU. If that works.. i'll buy it from you.

 

I'm north of you in renton, WA. I should have some time tomorrow or maybe monday(I have a wedding reception to attend to later today)to test out the ecu. which one did you need?

you should check for fuel pressure then if you think it's your fuel pump. just take off the bolt to the fuel filter or take out one of the injectors and crank to see if pressure is pushing through.

quick question, is the car cranking and not turning over or is the car not cranking at all? does the car die when it's hot out or does it die at all times?


things never seem the way they're supposed to be sometimes. I know I've checked things to see if they're good, thinking they were good, only to find out later they were bad. I'm not saying your cap, rotor, plugs are bad, I'm saying you shouldn't rule them out as being good.

make sure your fuel pump is priming. take your fuel cap off and have somebody turn the key to the "key on" position. put your ear as close as possible to the fuel filler as possible, you should be able to hear the fuel pump prime. you can hear it best this way, or you can hear it through the back seats also.

 

Mkay, I'll PM you with my phone number and we can hook up... I really appreciate the help.

I'm not ruling them out just yet. The car used to idle and when I would give it gas it would bog and die. If I got it high enough in the RPM it would be ok. That's why I thought it was TPS. I guess we'll see...

Oh.. and I needed the p14 5spd ECU

 

Couldn't hear the fuel pump from the filler or with my ear 4" away from the pump access cover. Didn't sound like anything... hmmmm

may have found the problem