alright guys my h23 is finally getting built i had the question about the strongest sleeves made about 2 months ago. well i wanted to go with darton but i found out that they dont make a dry sleeve for the 92 closed deck block so im having my machine shop blueprint a cast iron sleeve for it. crower i-beam billet rods and total seal gapless rings (good with boost). the head is going to be ported and polished to the max with 1mm oversized valves and then flowbenched for cam specs. crower is going to custom cut my cams. t3 t67 for more top end power whcih means less spinning out of the hole. 1000cc injectors 2 walbro 255 pumps and an aem for tunning. thats the basics tell me what you think and no bs it is in the making.

 

That's a chunk of change..

..any pics?

Can't wait to hear numbers.

 

pics will be soon block will be back in about 2 weeks block was 2850 head was 650 rest of the parts eqalled about 7000k hope it doesnt blow up

 

I honestly see a LOT of flaws with that build sofar.

1) Good luck with the custom sleeves and having a local shop do it. You could have had a block with MID's done for over 1/2 the price and not have to worry about a single thing. I've got a customer running MID's and we will be running around the 550-600whp marker with his H23 set-up.

2) Total seal = total *** = Total blow by. Worst rings period.

3) 2 walbro pumps? No. If you are going to run anything more than 600whp I would recommend using an external sump type of pump.

 

who makes pumps that are external sump and will flow enough for 650-700 whp and the sleeves will be fine no one makes a sleeve that i could find for the dry sleeve 92 h23 block so custom was the only way to go and they will be fine machine shop has built many honda motors and used this sleeve set-up he asured me with a lift-time warranty on sleeve failure so if it blows up for sleeve failure its on his hands. He said he has had very good luck with the total seal rings and i havnt heard anything bad about them everyone has there own opinion on parts and i trust the guy who builds badass motors for a living

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lude of pre 2.3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i trust the guy who builds badass motors for a living</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do the same for a living... and my knowlege is backed up with mechanical engineering. If you don't want to listen to me, fine. I've built probably 4 engines to date that have put out a surplus of 600whp not to mention countless ones that have made 300+. Again, there are a lot of flaws with the set-up that I see. And the whole sleeve deal is a joke... I have had 20+ H series engines done with MID style sleeves as well as the flanged series sleeves. You wasted a good bit of money on sleeves.

By the way, use proper grammar if you want to post on our forum.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lude of pre 2.3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who makes pumps that are external sump and will flow enough for 650-700 whp and the sleeves will be fine no one makes a sleeve that i could find for the dry sleeve 92 h23 block so custom was the only way to go and they will be fine machine shop has built many honda motors and used this sleeve set-up he asured me with a lift-time warranty on sleeve failure so if it blows up for sleeve failure its on his hands. He said he has had very good luck with the total seal rings and i havnt heard anything bad about them everyone has there own opinion on parts and i trust the guy who builds badass motors for a living</TD></TR></TABLE>

Golder eagle, Benson, darton all these sleeves will work with an H23. I would say total seal are junks rings as far a H series go I have seen first hand. To make 650 -700 is not as easy as u think. That t3/t67 more then likely will be maxxed out. I like MSD injectors (999's) the twin intanke 255 is nto the best rout. maybe look into an Areomotive pump. But Id try and see what the car does b4 you go and spend extra money on thing you will not need. I use a single walbro 255 and it works fine on my car. 612 whp and 425 @ about psi 26 psi on stock ignition

 

i'd listen to precisionh23 if i were you he knows his ****

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonvteclude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd listen to precisionh23 if i were you he knows his ****</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont know if you meant to quote somebodyelse's name and hit mine by accident but I didnt say I disagreed with him.

 

what is this, english class. anyways you do seem to know your ****, so whats wrong with the sleeves that im using and have you ever used them. My machinest said that he was going to blue-print a sleeve for the motor and send the print to LA sleeve to be maid. He said that he has used the sleeve before and had very good luck with them. the sleeves alone were only 400 which i thought was a pretty decent price considering darton wanted almost 700. Now i purchased Je pistons and they gave a sleeve number that darton did not even list. I called tec support and they couldnt explain either. Darton only lists 2 sleeves part numbers 200-018 and 300-018 which would have been right for my application? Can you explain this confusion?

 

The 300 series are flanged sleeves like you see here:

Closed Deck


Open Deck


The more expensive sleeves, which are 700+ are the Darton Modular Integrated Deck style sleeve. These sleeves will make an open deck into a closed deck set-up. These are the big daddy sleeves which should be used for your type of set-up in my opinion:

B series open deck - MID sleeves installed, now closed deck






If you are paying 400 for a set of sleeves I am guessing you have the flanged type of sleeve, which in my opinion is junk if you are looking for a reliable 700whp. As far as manufacture go... sleeves are pretty much sleeves. What REALLY counts is the quality of the machine work done. Import engines call for VERY tight clearances and have small tolerances so the slightest of error could lead to sunk sleeves.

I am not calling your machinest stupid by any means... but a vast amount of knowlege is needed to get this right. 3 years ago we used a local shop that claimed they could sleeve honda engines... we ended up having them drop 2 sets of sleeves on 1 customers engine. The customer was not very happy to say the least. You get what you pay for. End of story.


And as far as english class goes, if you project yourself as ignorant and uneducated you won't get much respect on the board. You get a lot further in today's world if you sound educated.

 

now the 700+ sleeves, the ring with the wholes in it, im guessing that that acts as a block gaurd for the open deck engines. im geussing that sleeve can not be used in a closed deck block so the flanged sleeve is really my only option. now i was very conserned with the making of the sleeve with the kind of power i want, but he asured me that the sleeves will not drop. I specifically gave him a phone call to see if he would provide waranty against the sleeves dropping which was a major concern for me. He said that the sleeves will not drop and he does provide a life-time warranty for that specific reason. You said total seal rings are junk is this because you have had bad luck with them from experience, and what rings would you recomend for my set-up

 

You can use the MID style sleeves on a closed deck block as well. The sleeves are overall MUCH more beefier and need to be used on larger bore set-ups. The holes allow for proper cooling.

Even if your engine is under warranty he will not pay for a complete rebuild. Go with either hastings or CP rings. Total seal is total ***. They have horrible blow-by. I know this because I ran a set years ago and have had several of my friends experience the same issues.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by md23vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I dont know if you meant to quote somebodyelse's name and hit mine by accident but I didnt say I disagreed with him.</TD></TR></TABLE>


no sorry i was replying to the last one at the time, wasnt towards you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

my knowlege is backed up with mechanical engineering.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Here is one of the H23 builds we are currently working on...



Gt35r

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is one of the H23 builds we are currently working on...



Gt35r </TD></TR></TABLE>

Holy S***! that is nice to say the least. What kind of manifold is that? How much power are you looking to make with the 35r?

 

^ With that setup, having the 35r on a bottom mount manifold, do you have to do the 1/2 civic radiator mod in the Prelude?

 

Around the 500-600whp marker. I may go more than 600... it just depends on how she does on the dyno. We will most likely use the 1/2 style radiator.

The manifold is a Love-Fab EQ manifold. We will soon be producing our own line of H series manifolds

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The manifold is a Love-Fab EQ manifold. We will soon be producing our own line of H series manifolds </TD></TR></TABLE>

can't wait

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonvteclude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


no sorry i was replying to the last one at the time, wasnt towards you</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just making sure no biggie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is one of the H23 builds we are currently working on...



Gt35r </TD></TR></TABLE>

Does the alternator clear the turbo with the manifold? Looks like it might fit hard to tell from the side pic. I am going to guess and also say the civic 1/2 radiator would be a must or is it optional?

 

The altenator will clear just fine, thank god. At first I was afraid the turbo wouldn't even fit at first.

Right now my customer has a full sized fluidyne so I will know if it fits once the engine goes in. Based on other builds like this I'm guessing a 1/2 sized will be needed.

I have another pimp daddy set-up that I'm working on... I'll post it up when the manifold gets here In order to run this h22 manifold an alt relocater kit will be used.

 

Oh ok Cool beans. Mike @ Ultimate made me a custom alternator bracket that bolts up to there the compressor was works great!! I am possibly going to look into a new manifold for next years setup when we put on the medium(customT70) or big turbo(custom T7?) and take off the small one(custom T66). Were making good power with the revhard tubeular/log sytle. But I think its gonna restrict the car once everything is dialed in and I need more power. I am thinking 612 whp and 425 tq will get old for me

 

Yes... an eq style manifold will definetely help unleash more power from your set-up. I remember Oaks was making 600+ on a log style manifold a few years ago as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes... an eq style manifold will definetely help unleash more power from your set-up. I remember Oaks was making 600+ on a log style manifold a few years ago as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeap. Jason and I figured we better not push it to hard. 600 is where we decided to stop. I am still running a walbro 255 I figure she is right about maxxed out. He said with better manifold we can pick up atleast 60whp @ 10psi no problem. Have you seen gains of this from the log style to the tubular/ramhorn style?