1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost !
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From: 518
1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost !
Whats up guys -
I have a '96 GS-R :
- AEM SRI, MSD Wires and Iridium Plugs
- T1R 4-2-1 Header...Carsound Cat....Spoon Sports N1 Axle-back blah blah
- Fluidine race rad.
- Exedy Stage-II Clutch
- 8lb Flywheel
I have a good deal of knowledge when it comes to honda/acura and know quite a bit about the B-Series engine itself.
Im looking to get boosted but Im not to sure what to go with as far as the setup...
My goal is around 310-360whp after the turbo, but there are a few thing I need to think about first.
I need to replace my piston rings...I burn some oil @ WOT , VTEC engaged.
> What size turbo should I go for? --> May be looking to upgrade the trim eventually
> What size waste-gate/IC would be best for my goals?
> Looking to use the HKS RFL type II b.o.v.
> Companys I'm thinking about : RevHard, Drag, LoveFab
Im looking for some feedback because I want to upgrade my drivetrain and achieve lower compression with a more aggressive, piston combo that would be most advantageos to a boosted app.
Let me know what you all think...Dont bother responding with buy this setup when it retails at $7k.
I want to do this right - so its going to take some time to piece it together, but nothing will be done half-*** etc.
Thanks for all yr help HT !
I have a '96 GS-R :
- AEM SRI, MSD Wires and Iridium Plugs
- T1R 4-2-1 Header...Carsound Cat....Spoon Sports N1 Axle-back blah blah
- Fluidine race rad.
- Exedy Stage-II Clutch
- 8lb Flywheel
I have a good deal of knowledge when it comes to honda/acura and know quite a bit about the B-Series engine itself.
Im looking to get boosted but Im not to sure what to go with as far as the setup...
My goal is around 310-360whp after the turbo, but there are a few thing I need to think about first.
I need to replace my piston rings...I burn some oil @ WOT , VTEC engaged.
> What size turbo should I go for? --> May be looking to upgrade the trim eventually
> What size waste-gate/IC would be best for my goals?
> Looking to use the HKS RFL type II b.o.v.
> Companys I'm thinking about : RevHard, Drag, LoveFab
Im looking for some feedback because I want to upgrade my drivetrain and achieve lower compression with a more aggressive, piston combo that would be most advantageos to a boosted app.
Let me know what you all think...Dont bother responding with buy this setup when it retails at $7k.
I want to do this right - so its going to take some time to piece it together, but nothing will be done half-*** etc.
Thanks for all yr help HT !
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Posts: 1,995
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From: NW, FL, USA
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (1MPOUND)
My goal for my setup was 320, The setup I recommend to you is for the setup range you want.
My setup,
Stock GSR
garret T3/T4 .60/.63
SPoolin log mainfold
SPoolin 2.5'' DP
Drag Intercooler
Drag chargepipes
HKS SSQ
TiAL 38MM
Precision 780cc peek&hold
Current250hp @ 8PSI Crome Pro
Estimated retune 320hp @ 12PSI Hondata
What i personally would go with if i Built my car
darton sleeves
9.5:1 compression Pistons
Eagle rods
ITR cams
supertech valvetrain
victorX IM
ramhorn/topmount manifold
3''DP & exhaust
Since you want to do a minimal build for a good price
I would bore your block out a little while your at it to get fresh cylinder walls
t3/t4 57trim
Skunk2 valvetrain
9:1 JE/CP pistons
eagle rods
precision 350hp intercooler
manifold of preference, depending on if u want A/C etc.
38mm wastegate
RC550s
Modified by Public Enemy at 2:21 PM 8/2/2006
My setup,
Stock GSR
garret T3/T4 .60/.63
SPoolin log mainfold
SPoolin 2.5'' DP
Drag Intercooler
Drag chargepipes
HKS SSQ
TiAL 38MM
Precision 780cc peek&hold
Current250hp @ 8PSI Crome Pro
Estimated retune 320hp @ 12PSI Hondata
What i personally would go with if i Built my car
darton sleeves
9.5:1 compression Pistons
Eagle rods
ITR cams
supertech valvetrain
victorX IM
ramhorn/topmount manifold
3''DP & exhaust
Since you want to do a minimal build for a good price
I would bore your block out a little while your at it to get fresh cylinder walls
t3/t4 57trim
Skunk2 valvetrain
9:1 JE/CP pistons
eagle rods
precision 350hp intercooler
manifold of preference, depending on if u want A/C etc.
38mm wastegate
RC550s
Modified by Public Enemy at 2:21 PM 8/2/2006
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From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (1MPOUND)
First of all, it's pretty normal to burn some oil while in vtec. How much you are burning, is the question. Do a compression test to see if your motor will be ok for boost.
Second, why are you looking at companies like RevHard, Drag, and Lovefab if you are piecing together a kit? Are you looking solely at their manifolds, or what?
The most important thing you left off your list: fuel management. Standalone? Chipped ECU? VAFC? FMU? (God help you if it's one of the latter two...). Also, have you thought about injectors?
You have LOTS of researching to do. You want a ball bearing turbo or no? How quickly do you want max boost? Look at flow charts to decide which turbo best suits you.
And what do you mean you want an aggressive piston setup? Lower compression generally means it's safer to boost more 'psi', but higher compression will make more power - but requires a better tune.
You dont need to be thinking about blow off valves just yet. So don't even worry about that.
Too many questions are here to tell you what you want. Honestly, if it's your first kit, buy the Greddy kit....
ps. if you dont have $7k to spend on everything, I wouldn't suggest building your motor and buying a good setup. You MIGHT have enough money.....
Second, why are you looking at companies like RevHard, Drag, and Lovefab if you are piecing together a kit? Are you looking solely at their manifolds, or what?
The most important thing you left off your list: fuel management. Standalone? Chipped ECU? VAFC? FMU? (God help you if it's one of the latter two...). Also, have you thought about injectors?
You have LOTS of researching to do. You want a ball bearing turbo or no? How quickly do you want max boost? Look at flow charts to decide which turbo best suits you.
And what do you mean you want an aggressive piston setup? Lower compression generally means it's safer to boost more 'psi', but higher compression will make more power - but requires a better tune.
You dont need to be thinking about blow off valves just yet. So don't even worry about that.
Too many questions are here to tell you what you want. Honestly, if it's your first kit, buy the Greddy kit....
ps. if you dont have $7k to spend on everything, I wouldn't suggest building your motor and buying a good setup. You MIGHT have enough money.....
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 479
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From: pay da cost to use the NOS,, Arlington TX
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (vsm98civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vsm98civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Too many questions are here to tell you what you want. Honestly, if it's your first kit, buy the Greddy kit....
ps. if you dont have $7k to spend on everything, I wouldn't suggest building your motor and buying a good setup. You MIGHT have enough money..... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Definitely...If this is your first time, get a greddy kit. I heard something recently that really hit home with my pieced together turbo setup..."the bitterness of poor quality is left over long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". Not that it necessarily has to be poor quality or anything, but just get a kit where everything has been tested and you know it's gonna fit right.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vsm98civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And what do you mean you want an aggressive piston setup? Lower compression generally means it's safer to boost more 'psi', but higher compression will make more power - but requires a better tune.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you sure? On a n/a engine that's correct. With turbo and a "low compression" motor, you can pack the same PSI as the high compression motor after the cylinder is compressed, it's just that now there's more volume since the gap between the top of the piston and cylinder head is greater. So you have more volume + same pressure = more power.
Technically you can run different boost pressures, compression ratios, etc. I know that, I'm just saying if the air PSI inside the engine in a low w/turbo engine vs high /non tutbo engine was the same, the turbo one would be making more power.
But if you're talking about boosting the same and just letting the psi be greater in the hi-comp motor, then you're right and I just misunderstood.
Too many questions are here to tell you what you want. Honestly, if it's your first kit, buy the Greddy kit....
ps. if you dont have $7k to spend on everything, I wouldn't suggest building your motor and buying a good setup. You MIGHT have enough money..... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Definitely...If this is your first time, get a greddy kit. I heard something recently that really hit home with my pieced together turbo setup..."the bitterness of poor quality is left over long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". Not that it necessarily has to be poor quality or anything, but just get a kit where everything has been tested and you know it's gonna fit right.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vsm98civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And what do you mean you want an aggressive piston setup? Lower compression generally means it's safer to boost more 'psi', but higher compression will make more power - but requires a better tune.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you sure? On a n/a engine that's correct. With turbo and a "low compression" motor, you can pack the same PSI as the high compression motor after the cylinder is compressed, it's just that now there's more volume since the gap between the top of the piston and cylinder head is greater. So you have more volume + same pressure = more power.
Technically you can run different boost pressures, compression ratios, etc. I know that, I'm just saying if the air PSI inside the engine in a low w/turbo engine vs high /non tutbo engine was the same, the turbo one would be making more power.
But if you're talking about boosting the same and just letting the psi be greater in the hi-comp motor, then you're right and I just misunderstood.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 479
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From: pay da cost to use the NOS,, Arlington TX
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (vsm98civic)
No. The OP was looking to go turbo. Going low compression will essentially give him more volume in the cylinder. Turbo is going to increase the effective compression, and if it's tuned right he'll be running a similar effective compression to a high compression motor. Only now he's got both the high compression, and more volume.
If he were to turbo an already high compression motor the compression will shoot through the roof. As you said, a tune can help take care of most of that. However you can do the same thing on a low compression motor. You're just increasing the volume of air more than you could on an already high compression one without having to add expensive mods.
Effectively with turbo, the low compression motor really isn't low compression anymore under boost.
If he were to turbo an already high compression motor the compression will shoot through the roof. As you said, a tune can help take care of most of that. However you can do the same thing on a low compression motor. You're just increasing the volume of air more than you could on an already high compression one without having to add expensive mods.
Effectively with turbo, the low compression motor really isn't low compression anymore under boost.
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From: bay area, ca
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (jared99)
I have the same radiator and im boosting 8ilbs on my gsr. Pulls hard with greddy kit. Get greddy you wont be disappinted for daily driver
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Posts: 1,864
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From: Fontucky, CA, USA
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (pnoytegn707)
I love everything about my DRAG setup except the header (it's not that bad; I just feel it's not as free flowing as it can be). I would suggest Hondata S200B for electronic management.
Member
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From: NW, FL, USA
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (TurboGS-R)
The drag header is a horrible design, the wastegate comes off one of the runners which causes a load of boost creep at higher psi (13 and over is what my buddy had issues with). The pos deltagate also does not help this. That is why I bought a new manifold and wastegate.
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: pay da cost to use the NOS,, Arlington TX
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (Public Enemy)
It's annoying trying to get the bolt in the top right hole as well, it's like the runner blocks a normal socket/wrench from getting in there.
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From: 518
Thanks for all the feedback, keep it comming !
Also- I left out FM and injectors because I already have the Hondata s300 with boost apps. and Im still looking at what injector size to go with. Ive been happy with RC as a supplier for Injection systems so I think im going to go with them.
There really isnt that much here for me to research- i could build a daily driver setup on my own -im just looking for opinions on some good setups and what people think I should do.
Like i said , im not too sure of the turbo specs - Id like to go ball-bearing for a quick spool adn Id like to achieve max boost areound 4500-5300rpms...Is that a bad range for full boost?
Would it be better to look for max.boost @ 6k and have boost with all valves working (VTEC fully engaged?)
Also- I left out FM and injectors because I already have the Hondata s300 with boost apps. and Im still looking at what injector size to go with. Ive been happy with RC as a supplier for Injection systems so I think im going to go with them.
There really isnt that much here for me to research- i could build a daily driver setup on my own -im just looking for opinions on some good setups and what people think I should do.
Like i said , im not too sure of the turbo specs - Id like to go ball-bearing for a quick spool adn Id like to achieve max boost areound 4500-5300rpms...Is that a bad range for full boost?
Would it be better to look for max.boost @ 6k and have boost with all valves working (VTEC fully engaged?)
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Posts: 2,530
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From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (jared99)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jared99 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No. The OP was looking to go turbo. Going low compression will essentially give him more volume in the cylinder. Turbo is going to increase the effective compression, and if it's tuned right he'll be running a similar effective compression to a high compression motor. Only now he's got both the high compression, and more volume.
If he were to turbo an already high compression motor the compression will shoot through the roof. As you said, a tune can help take care of most of that. However you can do the same thing on a low compression motor. You're just increasing the volume of air more than you could on an already high compression one without having to add expensive mods.
Effectively with turbo, the low compression motor really isn't low compression anymore under boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Honestly, I think you're a bit mistaken. You're thinking too much into it. Compression ratio does not change, whether you're boosted or N/A. I really dont understand your point of view...
If he were to turbo an already high compression motor the compression will shoot through the roof. As you said, a tune can help take care of most of that. However you can do the same thing on a low compression motor. You're just increasing the volume of air more than you could on an already high compression one without having to add expensive mods.
Effectively with turbo, the low compression motor really isn't low compression anymore under boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Honestly, I think you're a bit mistaken. You're thinking too much into it. Compression ratio does not change, whether you're boosted or N/A. I really dont understand your point of view...
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Posts: 1,995
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From: NW, FL, USA
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (vsm98civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1MPOUND »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for all the feedback, keep it comming !
Also- I left out FM and injectors because I already have the Hondata s300 with boost apps. and Im still looking at what injector size to go with. Ive been happy with RC as a supplier for Injection systems so I think im going to go with them.
There really isnt that much here for me to research- i could build a daily driver setup on my own -im just looking for opinions on some good setups and what people think I should do.
Like i said , im not too sure of the turbo specs - Id like to go ball-bearing for a quick spool adn Id like to achieve max boost areound 4500-5300rpms...Is that a bad range for full boost?
Would it be better to look for max.boost @ 6k and have boost with all valves working (VTEC fully engaged?)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you want to drop the money go ball bearing. My t3/t4 hits full spool at 3800rpm and holds it till 8grand (which i put my revlimiter at). Ball-bearing is better but the difference in money does not justify it for my situation.
For your turbo i suggest the GT3071R ( http://www.turbobygarrett.com/...3.htm ), rated 310-475hp and ballbearing. This is a perfect turbo for a mild build like you're considering. The turbo can and will support more horsepower if you ever decide to fully build your engine. Its up to you, the GT28 is also a good choice for a quicker spooltime.
Also- I left out FM and injectors because I already have the Hondata s300 with boost apps. and Im still looking at what injector size to go with. Ive been happy with RC as a supplier for Injection systems so I think im going to go with them.
There really isnt that much here for me to research- i could build a daily driver setup on my own -im just looking for opinions on some good setups and what people think I should do.
Like i said , im not too sure of the turbo specs - Id like to go ball-bearing for a quick spool adn Id like to achieve max boost areound 4500-5300rpms...Is that a bad range for full boost?
Would it be better to look for max.boost @ 6k and have boost with all valves working (VTEC fully engaged?)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you want to drop the money go ball bearing. My t3/t4 hits full spool at 3800rpm and holds it till 8grand (which i put my revlimiter at). Ball-bearing is better but the difference in money does not justify it for my situation.
For your turbo i suggest the GT3071R ( http://www.turbobygarrett.com/...3.htm ), rated 310-475hp and ballbearing. This is a perfect turbo for a mild build like you're considering. The turbo can and will support more horsepower if you ever decide to fully build your engine. Its up to you, the GT28 is also a good choice for a quicker spooltime.
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Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (vsm98civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vsm98civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Compression ratio does not change, whether you're boosted or N/A. I really dont understand your point of view...</TD></TR></TABLE>
It does, but he is confusing effective compression ratio with static compression ratio....and the effective compression ratio increases with boost.
Compression ratio does not change, whether you're boosted or N/A. I really dont understand your point of view...</TD></TR></TABLE>
It does, but he is confusing effective compression ratio with static compression ratio....and the effective compression ratio increases with boost.
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Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (Public Enemy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Public Enemy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want to drop the money go ball bearing. My t3/t4 hits full spool at 3800rpm and holds it till 8grand (which i put my revlimiter at). Ball-bearing is better but the difference in money does not justify it for my situation.
For your turbo i suggest the GT3071R ( http://www.turbobygarrett.com/...3.htm ), rated 310-475hp and ballbearing. This is a perfect turbo for a mild build like you're
considering. The turbo can and will support more horsepower if you ever decide to fully build your engine. Its up to you, the GT28 is also a good choice for a quicker spooltime. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks - ill deff. consider that turbo - what would you suggest I use in a combination with that...
Which FMIC...
. Engine Management
. Type of Manifold
. SIZE injectors
. SIZE wastegate
. What pistons - Turbo specific
Also - does anyone know if I can keep my radiator set-up im using now?
^ Id really like to keep it
Any more suggestions would be great .: The help is working wonders so far !
For your turbo i suggest the GT3071R ( http://www.turbobygarrett.com/...3.htm ), rated 310-475hp and ballbearing. This is a perfect turbo for a mild build like you're
considering. The turbo can and will support more horsepower if you ever decide to fully build your engine. Its up to you, the GT28 is also a good choice for a quicker spooltime. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks - ill deff. consider that turbo - what would you suggest I use in a combination with that...
Which FMIC...
. Engine Management
. Type of Manifold
. SIZE injectors
. SIZE wastegate
. What pistons - Turbo specific
Also - does anyone know if I can keep my radiator set-up im using now?
^ Id really like to keep it
Any more suggestions would be great .: The help is working wonders so far !
Thread Starter
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From: 518
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (jared99)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jared99 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But if you're talking about boosting the same and just letting the psi be greater in the hi-comp motor, then you're right and I just misunderstood.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats what I meant - its all good tho - thanks for your help so far !
Thats what I meant - its all good tho - thanks for your help so far !
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From: NW, FL, USA
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (1MPOUND)
FMIC - Precision 600hp
EMS - Hondata (S200 or S300)
Manifold - Spoolin Performance Street Power (ram horn) good bang for buck. Or if you want to spend the money, get a Lovefab or Full-Race topmount
Injectors - Up to you and the power you want. I run Precision 780cc Peak & Hold injectors on my setup. Probably be good for you powerrange as well, they support up to 540hp
Wastegate - TiAL Sport 38mm Wastegate
Pistons - any 9:1 compression piston, I personally would go with CP. Remember go .02mm over on the bore size because you really should get a clean bore on your block. Might as well since you are pulling it apart anyway.
All of these are just my opinion, make your own opinion.. its your money.
That radiator may not work with a ramhorn or top mount style manifold. If you want to keep that dual core radiator I would suggest a different manifold. Maybe a SPoolin Quick4AC or a Lovefab Mini-Me EQ
Modified by Public Enemy at 12:10 PM 8/3/2006
EMS - Hondata (S200 or S300)
Manifold - Spoolin Performance Street Power (ram horn) good bang for buck. Or if you want to spend the money, get a Lovefab or Full-Race topmount
Injectors - Up to you and the power you want. I run Precision 780cc Peak & Hold injectors on my setup. Probably be good for you powerrange as well, they support up to 540hp
Wastegate - TiAL Sport 38mm Wastegate
Pistons - any 9:1 compression piston, I personally would go with CP. Remember go .02mm over on the bore size because you really should get a clean bore on your block. Might as well since you are pulling it apart anyway.
All of these are just my opinion, make your own opinion.. its your money.
That radiator may not work with a ramhorn or top mount style manifold. If you want to keep that dual core radiator I would suggest a different manifold. Maybe a SPoolin Quick4AC or a Lovefab Mini-Me EQ
Modified by Public Enemy at 12:10 PM 8/3/2006
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From: San Antonio, TX
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (Public Enemy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Public Enemy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Remember go about 2mm over on the bore size because you really should get a clean bore on your block. Might as well since you are pulling it apart anyway.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
wtf are you talking about?
you don't want to go over .5 mm over on a stock sleeve turbo build. 2 mm overbore is crazy talk. and besides, you'd be better off with stock bore if there's no large gashes in the sleeves, just get a hone and stick to 81 mm.
and if your going to do pistons and are only looking for 320 whp or so. Get like 9.5-10 pistons. that way you wont lose all of your bottom end.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
wtf are you talking about?
you don't want to go over .5 mm over on a stock sleeve turbo build. 2 mm overbore is crazy talk. and besides, you'd be better off with stock bore if there's no large gashes in the sleeves, just get a hone and stick to 81 mm.
and if your going to do pistons and are only looking for 320 whp or so. Get like 9.5-10 pistons. that way you wont lose all of your bottom end.
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From: NW, FL, USA
Re: 1996 GS-R .: Lets build some boost ! (H23 Power)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H23 Power »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wtf are you talking about?
you don't want to go over .5 mm over on a stock sleeve turbo build. 2 mm overbore is crazy talk. and besides, you'd be better off with stock bore if there's no large gashes in the sleeves, just get a hone and stick to 81 mm.
and if your going to do pistons and are only looking for 320 whp or so. Get like 9.5-10 pistons. that way you wont lose all of your bottom end.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hes taking the block apart anyway, Its smart to get fresh cylinder walls. You can go 9.5:1 thats what im doing, but it would be safer to go 9:1 for now. He is going for a larger setup though, so a 9:1 would be safer incase he decides to run more boost which will be possible on the setup I suggested.
These are just my suggestions, theres many ways to go about doing the same thing. Thanks for your opinion
you don't want to go over .5 mm over on a stock sleeve turbo build. 2 mm overbore is crazy talk. and besides, you'd be better off with stock bore if there's no large gashes in the sleeves, just get a hone and stick to 81 mm.
and if your going to do pistons and are only looking for 320 whp or so. Get like 9.5-10 pistons. that way you wont lose all of your bottom end.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hes taking the block apart anyway, Its smart to get fresh cylinder walls. You can go 9.5:1 thats what im doing, but it would be safer to go 9:1 for now. He is going for a larger setup though, so a 9:1 would be safer incase he decides to run more boost which will be possible on the setup I suggested.
These are just my suggestions, theres many ways to go about doing the same thing. Thanks for your opinion
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From: NW, FL, USA
Re: (1MPOUND)
I'm sure people could get alot more technical then I'm able to explain but.. her goes.
The compression of an engine rises with the more psi (boost) you put in it. When you boost a car you usually lower the compression to compensate for this. If you are only going for a small number of HP, like I did you can leave the compression stock (10.1:1 I think is GSR's). But if you decide to boost alot (like over 12psi) You will probably want to lower the compression to compensate for this boost. You can run 16lbs on a stock GSR, but the life of that engine will be greatly reduced. If you put a 9.5:1 piston in it you Can run less boost to get the same power as running a 9:1 with more boost. Its just differnt ways of creating the same power. With that said if you ever want to run more boost it would be safer to get a 9:1 compression piston to lower the overal compression ratio.
Thats what was being talked about above. Now i'm no genious in this issue and the people in this thread probably know alot more about the technical aspects of it. Thats my .02. Flame away
Feel free to critique me. THanks
By the way I was wrong abotu the overbore, you would only have to bore it out a little. like .02 or something I forget the exact measurement my engine builder recommended me, basically just enough to get new smooth cylinder walls.
Modified by Public Enemy at 12:13 PM 8/3/2006
The compression of an engine rises with the more psi (boost) you put in it. When you boost a car you usually lower the compression to compensate for this. If you are only going for a small number of HP, like I did you can leave the compression stock (10.1:1 I think is GSR's). But if you decide to boost alot (like over 12psi) You will probably want to lower the compression to compensate for this boost. You can run 16lbs on a stock GSR, but the life of that engine will be greatly reduced. If you put a 9.5:1 piston in it you Can run less boost to get the same power as running a 9:1 with more boost. Its just differnt ways of creating the same power. With that said if you ever want to run more boost it would be safer to get a 9:1 compression piston to lower the overal compression ratio.
Thats what was being talked about above. Now i'm no genious in this issue and the people in this thread probably know alot more about the technical aspects of it. Thats my .02. Flame away
Feel free to critique me. THanks
By the way I was wrong abotu the overbore, you would only have to bore it out a little. like .02 or something I forget the exact measurement my engine builder recommended me, basically just enough to get new smooth cylinder walls.
Modified by Public Enemy at 12:13 PM 8/3/2006
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 479
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From: pay da cost to use the NOS,, Arlington TX
Re: (Public Enemy)
Haha..no flaming necessary. I expected to be flamed for the other posts late last night, I read them today now that I"m awake and I don't think I phrased them in ways taht made the most sense. Sorry about the confusion between the "effective" and "static" compression.
A lower compression piston will have a top that looks like a wooden spoon..it's caved in. This means there's more gap between the top of the piston and the head. The air doesn't compact as much so the compression ratio is less. In a naturally aspirated engine, you would lose power.
Let me make a really bad illustration that kinda works although the numbers aren't gonna be real, just arbitrary numbers. Let's say that the compression in your engine is "20". These numbers don't correlate to any real numbers, just numbers I made up. So when the piston is at the top, the pressure is 20. You can add turbo, but then that number might bump to 30. And lets say the amount of air is "10".
Now, if you have low compression pistons, the number 20 might change to a 16. Then you add turbo, which bumps that number back up to 20. However, the method of getting to "20" is different. Instead of packing the air into the smallest space possible, you're just packing more air into a larger space. So now you have compression (pressure) of 20, but the amount of air may be 15. Since you're burning more air, you're making more power.
I know the last 2 paragraphs are super confusing, I'll see if I can find a better analogy than that sucky one I made up. Basically lower compression pistons allow you to put more air in the engine while still running sane-levels of internal psi.
I might do that last though, depending on your budget. You don't want to have a half-built engine and then run out of money and not be able to put the turbo on.
A lower compression piston will have a top that looks like a wooden spoon..it's caved in. This means there's more gap between the top of the piston and the head. The air doesn't compact as much so the compression ratio is less. In a naturally aspirated engine, you would lose power.
Let me make a really bad illustration that kinda works although the numbers aren't gonna be real, just arbitrary numbers. Let's say that the compression in your engine is "20". These numbers don't correlate to any real numbers, just numbers I made up. So when the piston is at the top, the pressure is 20. You can add turbo, but then that number might bump to 30. And lets say the amount of air is "10".
Now, if you have low compression pistons, the number 20 might change to a 16. Then you add turbo, which bumps that number back up to 20. However, the method of getting to "20" is different. Instead of packing the air into the smallest space possible, you're just packing more air into a larger space. So now you have compression (pressure) of 20, but the amount of air may be 15. Since you're burning more air, you're making more power.
I know the last 2 paragraphs are super confusing, I'll see if I can find a better analogy than that sucky one I made up. Basically lower compression pistons allow you to put more air in the engine while still running sane-levels of internal psi.
I might do that last though, depending on your budget. You don't want to have a half-built engine and then run out of money and not be able to put the turbo on.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
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Re: (Public Enemy)
Sounds right to me...
I want to run a compression of 9 : 1 and therefore be safer when running higher boost - the reason I want to go with 9 :1 is so I can take the block apart to put in the pistons and then not rip it open for sometime after that. The idea of getting the same amount of power with higher boost at 9:1 is much more appealing to me than running less boost with the same power involved in a 9:5:1.
- I should find out the compression on my truck - '04 Pwrstroke Turbo-diesel w/ 650rwhp/877ft.lbs
^ the turbo is pushing 40psi...
Back to the GS-R...
What would the best piston kit (everything needed included) for my situation?
[ running higher psi, 9:1 comp.?]
I want to run a compression of 9 : 1 and therefore be safer when running higher boost - the reason I want to go with 9 :1 is so I can take the block apart to put in the pistons and then not rip it open for sometime after that. The idea of getting the same amount of power with higher boost at 9:1 is much more appealing to me than running less boost with the same power involved in a 9:5:1.
- I should find out the compression on my truck - '04 Pwrstroke Turbo-diesel w/ 650rwhp/877ft.lbs
^ the turbo is pushing 40psi...
Back to the GS-R...
What would the best piston kit (everything needed included) for my situation?
[ running higher psi, 9:1 comp.?]