Hello !

I was wondering if I could use stock civic springs with my koni race shocks (8041 race, factory shortened and revalved (SPSS3))

are there any inconvenient in term of installation or fitting, or droop travel, etc ?

It would be for winter use.

thanks,

Patrick

 

you may be over damped...but i would see no problem with it other than trying to compress the stock spring so you can get teh oe tophats on..the shock is shorter than the OE one.

If it were me I'd run H&R sports on the highest circlip of the konis, would be better than OE springs, i dont think it'd be too low. Or could try the OE sports.

 

the height actually doesn't matter, it is more of a price question.

The fact is, i have OEM springs laying around. they would be a 0$ solution wich is the best for my student situation.

Last year, I ran H&R race with ots koni sports. it was very pleasant and it honnestly went very very good.

Would the fact that it would be overdamped result in a crappy ride ? I would not think so...

 

what do you guys think ?

 

it will probably be just fine. much better than aftermarket springs + stock shocks anyway.

 

i'd like facts

 

I have Truechoice Phase-4 konis that are shortened.

The only problem that I can see is that at full shock extension, it maybe too short for your springs.

With my setup, at full extension in the rear, the car is 2.5" lower than stock - that's as high as it will go. I use Ground Control coil-overs BTW.

 

my set of race valved konis are only marginally shorter than stock, and I could see being able to install an OEM spring in there without any problems with droop.

its usually being too low, or running too much spring for the valving of the shock that kills them, running an OEM spring is doing the opposite of that. just an educated guess, sorry I cannot provide you with "facts" tho.

 

If you have the spring perches for the non-flat ended stock springs, then the only thing I would worry about is the amount of preload it will take to get the springs on with the shorter shaft length. I suppose you could have to worry about topping the shocks out, but with the stiffer rebound those shocks offer, it shouldn't be much of a problem if any at all.

You could always try clipping off one or more of the dead coils to shorten the spring if needed as well.

 

I've read that for stock Konis, the lowest setting is equivalent to stock damping.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ED9man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've read that for stock Konis, the lowest setting is equivalent to stock damping.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ive not found that to be true at all.

OTS yellows dont work very well with stock springs because the compression damping is so little and remains unadjustable, as opposed to the great amount of rebound damping which only adjusts to even greater proportions. even at the lowest setting, i found putting on a rear set of koni yellows on the rear was "jacking" as i went over bumps.

i cant imagine putting stock springs on race valved and shortened konis. the front spring is fairly preloaded as it is stock. youd definatley have to lower the spring perch to compensate for the shorter length.

 

I have no experience with them, I think it was some Koni literature online that said that. What is jacking?

 

Tyson,

you understand me well. this is what I am sared of. Having maybe to pre load so much that it would be dangerous to install

I would like not to cut anything from the spring since this would increase bottom-out risks with such low spring rate...

Would it be doable if I used the lower spring perch ?

I am looking into more informations

Patrick

 

why talk about it. just do it and see if it works or not.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why talk about it. just do it and see if it works or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly what I want to avoid...i am not lazy or anything. But it could be time consuming and I can't afford to waste time...

also, can you define «jacking»

 

all tihngs relative, when spring rate is low, and compressiong damping is low, and rebound damping is so high, so that after a bump the shock will not be able to extend back in time before the next bump and will continue to keep compressing.

when i had koni yellows and stock springs in the rear, it felt like my *** was dragging after i went over a speed bump.

 

you can pm crx lee and ask him about it (he works for koni), or maybe spring for some H&R springs for $150 and throw those in there.

 

The Koni RACE units have circlips in the stock perch locations and also 15 mm lower. You can install the stock springs on these sshorter max length shocks with the perch in the stock location and the only issue is that you will have to compress the spring further during installation to get the top nuts on. Once the car and wheels are on the ground, there will be no otehr effects. If this is dangerous, then you were not using the spring compressors properly in the first place.

Because these do offer a lower perch location and if you don't care about the ride height as you said, my personal preference would be to install the stock springs on the perches in the lowering perch location, thus requiring 15 mm less compresing of the spring at installation but more importantly lowering the car by about 1 inch all the way around. This will reduce gap, lower CG a tad, etc. without being a drastic change. There are a good number of people driving around out there with stock springs on SPSS3 valving (many, many stock class autocrossers) without a problem. I do expect that you will find it best for daily use at or near the lower end of the rebound adjustment range and it will ride more aggressively than stock but not be bone jarring. No reason not to do it if you want to, lots of other people do.



Modified by CRX Lee at 5:51 PM 8/3/2006

 

im not an "anti-koni guy". ive recommended koni's where its appropriate.

theres nothing ive said that is "anti-koni".

and any experience ive had, and others have had, are in fact reality. and my statements reflect that.

right, so this is a true statement?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ED9man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've read that for stock Konis, the lowest setting is equivalent to stock damping.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the statement i remember from you is that the koni REDs adjustment range matches the bottom of the Yellow adjustment range. not stock. if that were true, then ots koni yellows offer absolutely NO change in compression damping.

reality?



Modified by Tyson at 2:39 PM 8/2/2006

 

The softest setting on a Koni is the baseline point for our valving that we feel gives the car the proper mix of ride, handling and balance for a stock car. It has no frame of reference to stock dampers at all. As a generality, normally it will build between some and quite a bit more force both in rebound and compression in differing amounts than the stock shock. Periodically but rarely when we feel that the stock shocks might actually make too much force (like too much high speed bump damping on the rear of an S2000 or C5 and C6 Corvette thus compromising grip), the Konis migh actually be a little bit softer in some parts of the piston speed range than the stock shocks. Generally, most stock shocks are limited in capability because the manufacturer had to do a lot of cost cutting so it is uncommon that you see a stock shock with much low speed damping or a degressive curve. So the minimum setting on a Koni is our baseline for handling, balance and ride and rarely will have any intended relation to a stock valving. The adjustment range goes up from there.

As a general rule of thumb but may not be so per specific application, the upper half or two thirds of the rebound adjustment range of a red Koni Special may be a pretty decent but not necessarily exact overlap of the lower half or two third of the adjustment range of a yellow Koni Sport. This is not exact because they are developed seperately and not with one as a reference to the other. Since the compression damping is not adjustable on most Sports and Specials, it will almost always be one or two footvalve steps higher in a Sport than the corresponding Special. Generally the Special is designed with streetable comfort with performance in mind. The Sport is designed as a higher initial baseline for more aggressive use, more car modifications like springs, wheels and tires, maybe some autocross etc. but it still needs to be a very streetable package. We very rarely develop a red Special shock in the US so most of what we sell and therefore design for is the Sport shock and a "Koni Sport feel". We have kind of a signature feel and responsivness in mind that we want to apply to bring out the best of that car, if that car responds well to it. In my 10 years with Koni, we have never developed both a Koni Special and Koni Sport for the same car in North America. That was done a few times here before my time and it is done in Europe still when many other countries of the world have different markets, pricing, expectations, roads, etc. In North America, we are very Sport oriented in general and are now beginning to develop FSD for our market so we have a different target for it.


Modified by CRX Lee at 5:52 PM 8/3/2006

 

Lee, your help is unvaluable. I'm glad I own a set of Koni shock absorbers.

thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ive not found that to be true at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No, this is not true. </TD></TR></TABLE>

great, so you agree with me. why did you say i was wrong earlier?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sorry but I take issue with every statement in this post and don't think any of it has any bearing on reality. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't get why you are saying that a Koni Sport is no different in compression damping from a stock damper. </TD></TR></TABLE>

reread what i typed. i said it could NOT be true. because yellows would not have any bearing on stock shocks, like i said, and you apparently have confirmed.

again, thanks for agreeing with me and backing up everything ive said.

why so anti-tyson, lee?

 

Modified by CRX Lee at 5:53 PM 8/3/2006

 

well if anything, i found your responses misleading and misrepresenting to everything i said. i wanted to clear up any misunderstanding.

its clear to me where we stand. nothings hidden. im here to present things factual. nothing ive said was misrepresenting and it was clear what was opinion and personal experience, which you know im entitled to.

i guess to you, taking the highroad means being dismissive. [or just deleting all the negative and incorrect things youve said in response to me]


Modified by Tyson at 6:04 PM 8/3/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the statement i remember from you is that the koni REDs adjustment range matches the bottom of the Yellow adjustment range. </TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=703730

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Generally if we offer both red Classic and yellow Sport shocks for the same car, the red is going to be more of a "comfort with performacne" feel vs. the yellow "sportier performance" feel. As a generality the upper half to 2/3s of the red valving adjustment range may likely overlap the lower half to 2/3s of the yellow shock range but there are so many differences between cars and owners that you just can't always say. If the car is to stay pretty stock or have minor mods but you want to wake it back up nicely, then go for the reds. </TD></TR></TABLE>

well see here now.... guess my memory was correct.