I have a '97 LS, and my goal is high 14's/low 15's (at sea level, not at Denver's elevation)... Forced induction is too expensive, and N2O isn't a fair way to win a race, so I'm looking for NA mods.

Currently, it's only power adder is a short ram intake, but I'll have an ITR cat back by this weekend, and I also plan on getting a DC 4-2-1 header soon. I've heard of people getting their LS with just I/H/E to run 15.6, is that a reasonable time to expect mine to run?

I'm wondering what to get for my next mod(s)... I'm probably going to advance my timing to 18 degrees and see if that does anything (I've heard 2-3 hp increase), but I'm also going to be buying some things. I'm considering cam gears, fuel system upgrade, and ignition system upgrade...

I've heard of people getting good results from adjustable cam gears (assuming they're tuned properly), but I'm wondering what kind of actual results to expect. Anyone have any experience with adjustable cam gears?

As for the fuel and ignition upgrades, I've heard they can do good, but won't do much/anything for a stock motor. At what point(s) will fuel and ignition system upgrades give me noticable gains?

Anything else I should consider?

 

Wasn't there a recent post saying upgrading the ignition is pointless and not neccessary unless you are ALL race?? Save your money for the mods you have said yourself... that is definetly a good start. A turbo is always sweet but costly! Go all motor, lightening the flywheel is an easy thing to do. You can probablly search here to learn how to do it...!

 

Get I/H/E, cams, gears, (springs & retainers depending on cams), ecu, tranny, clutch...

 

How about a GS-R, Si, or ITR tranny? People seem to have found good results with a tranny swap in LS's.

 

how mcuh u got ur ITR cat back?

 

The ITR cat back was $130 + shipping ($66). It was off a '01 Type-R w/3k miles on it. Pretty good deal if you ask me. Should get here in a couple days...

 

Get a GSR or SI tranny with a really good clutch and you'll be happy

 

Why does everyone tell him to get turbo and nos when he said he doesnt want that... ? Im just wondering if you guys pay attention at all to what people post or if you just reply as soon as you see a question?

 

thats correct. swap out your LS tranny and slap on a GSR tranny. it will give you good results over the LS tranny.

 

thats also correct. stock ignition is good enough. its only good to upgrade it if youre putting LOTS of horsepower.

mods wise... a good freeflowing exhuast with a high flow cat, DC header, AEM cold air intake, performance clutch, throttle body and a skunk2 intake manifold should give you some good times for basic boltons.

 

I say just get I/H/E cam gears (any brand but AEM), crower 62403 cams, ti retainers and valve springs (if you want more power get the 62404's but without tuning they will make the car idle like a harley ) a fpr, skunk2 im, bigger TB, and a S-AFC to tune the cams. I think this is good for high 14's in the 1/4. If you really wanna go crazy you can install some ITR pistons (you will need to get the rods shaved), a GSR or Si tranny, a lightweight flywheel, and get some headwork done (p n'p, 3 angle valve job, etc). I think this is a killer setup (this will my future setup). Is there anything else missing short of FI ?


[Modified by FrostyDC4, 6:49 PM 4/22/2002]

 

turbo is quality

 

mine ran 15.6 with only IHE here in fl at sea level, stock timing and nothing done except spare taken out

 

If you must go n/a ls... bsq/home depot intake (makes comparable peak to aem w/ faster throttle response; don't waste time/money on a short ram anything) , some real headers (personally non DC sports), a free flowing exhaust (stock R is good, not great flow wise), IM (skunk is bigtime high-end, ctr or itr will be fine), TB (itr is ok, not a big bottleneck), s-afc or some other method of tuning VERY important, crower 403 (will give you decent power, I don't think 404's make enough to justify the required upgrades), reliable fpr/injectors/pump (as deemed necessary by the amount of power made), mild p&p (not too much or it'll hurt intake velocity), a gsr tranny (worth it in shorter ratios and making the whole driving experience better b/c it seems you're going faster due to the shorter gears), lsd (essential imo whether you drag, autox, or track). When working w/ an LS, remember that the engine isn't made to rev high like traditional honda n/a motors. You want to make as much power as you can within a relatively low rev range so you wanna work w/ the engine characteristics. This mean torque. Early, and a lot of it. Imo its no worth it to spend the money upgrading valve springs and such for "high rpm" operation b/c the engine isn't balanced for high rpm operation and doesn't have adequate lubrication like the b18c's. This and some other stuff is pretty much why I always boost b18b's. If you're hellbent on an n/a setup, seriously consider a gsr motor/tranny swap. It'll save some labor money from your tranny swap and usdm gsr's aren't as insanely priced as b18c5's are. Oh yea, look into a lightened flywheel... its mostly for driving style so try to drive a couple different cars w/ different weight flywheels and you'll find one you like.

Edit: forgot about cam gears, need to set them up on a dyno and they'll help you REALIZE power that you aren't making. This means they don't do much w/ mild mods and begin to be more and more radical. They do more of freeing up potential power than "making" power but you can call it what you want. And ignition upgrades... most people running mild FI don't upgrade their stock ignition so there really isn't any reason you need to now or in the near future. Just a set of ngk coppers when its time to replace and stock wires will be fine. If you have to replace wires I think ngk blues do a good job for cheap. No need for ignition/coil upgrades unless you like the look of an ignition box nailed to your firewall... whatever floats your boat


[Modified by tonydatyga, 10:27 PM 4/22/2002]

 

So what's wrong with DC headers or ITR exhaust? I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to find a dyno of a stock LS and a LS w/ DC 4-2-1. Does anyone have any evidence that there's a better header for my needs? I know the Kamikaze header can outperform DC, but it's only better if you've got a supercharger. As far as I have heard, DC is the best header for NA Hondas, but I'd be very interested in some honest dynos of other headers.

As for the ITR cat back on a LS, I doubt I'll find a dyno for that, but I don't see how another exhaust is going to be significantly better... the b-pipe is mandrel bent and only slightly (a matter of millimeters) smaller than aftermarket cat backs, so exhaust velocity will be slightly better but it'll have back pressure slightly sooner. I really don't think back pressure will be an issue at all because it's designed for a car that revs higher and puts out more exhaust flow than my LS. Maybe the angle and placement of the bends is a little different on aftermarket exhausts, but I trust that Honda knows what it's doing better than most of these aftermarket companies.

I think the only real issue is the muffler, which I'm sure causes some back pressure, but that's a small price to pay for keeping my car quiet. I really don't want a "muffler" that makes my car significantly louder; it's illegal and in most cases, it's 95% rice and 5% performance. In the cruising area around here, the cops have been known to actually tow your car if you're caught with illegal exhaust. In any case, the ITR cat back should flow a lot better than my stock LS exhaust and I'd expect that it's performance is very comparable to aftermarket cat backs, but it won't make my car obnoxiously loud and get me tickets. No offense, but I think there's a lot of BS and speculation being passed off as fact about the performance of many aftermarket parts, exhausts especially. Excessive noise is not an indication of power or lack of back pressure, it's an indication of rice. I'm open to seeing some honest dyno numbers, but I very seriously doubt I'll be replacing the ITR cat back for something else.

I had once considered the Skunk2 Intake Manifold... then I saw some dyno numbers. The dyno I saw was actually of a ITR IM modified to fit a LS head, but it's my understanding that the Skunk2 IM is just an ITR IM knock off for the LS. The dyno showed that it took about 8whp from the mid band (4-5.5k) and added about 8whp to the top end (5.5k - 7k). I'm sure my top speed would benefit, but I'd rather have the power in the mid band. Does anyone have a dyno of the actual Skunk2 IM on a LS?

 

I still don't understand what people have against nitrous. It's a power adder just like turbo/sc.

 

too lazy to refill the bottle...

 

cost money to push a button and if you are trigger happy cost alot of money.

 

have you consider ls/vtec and is less then a turbo . either way save your money and it will be worth it at the end!

 

I think you should look into other areas for power/speed

Lightweight wheels, weight reduction, tranny, flywheel, clutch, short shifter, etc

 

Boost~

 

id go ls/vtec for sure>>>

 

Check out the comptech website, go to the header page and there is a dyno of a Ls with exhaust and header vs. stock.

 

if your getting headers get jg pro

 

Let me just say I have a b16 IM and an LS head sitting in my garage and its gonna take some serious modification to get that thing on there, has anyone actually done this or is there a webpage showing how and what needs to be done? One of the bolt hole does not line up (top middle) and the coolant area is very different, and I dont even know about the sensor taps. BTW its an early b16 IM, like first gen or second