DragSource

Provided you have ALL of the necessary accompanying parts to actually rev to 9k, including the portwork and cams necessary to make it worth your while:

Is the stock LS rocker assembly going to hold up?

Please share your experiences with this.

I have read a lot of posts about rocker wear, and the bolts coming lose on the cam holders,etc - I'm not concerned with that.

Has anyone actually experienced complete rocker failure - like one just breaking, or coming out completely? (would it have to break to come out. . . doesn't seem possible to get them out without lifting the cam)

I suppose if you were running a really high lift cam. . . could the rocker pop out?

The only reason I ask is because I'm getting some flack from a few people, who's opinions I respect, for trying to take my LS head to 8.5 - 9k. While I value the opinions of these people, I can't take them at their word as most of the **** in the hobby is theory.

Thank you for any information or experiences you have to share

tgreaves

There is nothing to "pop out" on the rocker assembly.. There are attached on one side to an oil rail which is bolted to the head.. You could rev the motor to probably like 100k rpms and the rockers would be fine..

The valve is on the bottom the rocker and the cam is on the top and the rockers never loose contact with the cam or valves so there is no way for them to get loose..

The problem with a really high rpm is that you will float the valves causing the piston to hit the valve before the springs have fully pulled the valve back on to its seat..

DragSource

The LS rocker arms don't have an oil rail through them like a VTEC head.

This is why I was inquiring about the reliability of the LS head.

tgreaves

Ohh.. I didnt know that, I thought they all were the same..

Sonny

Yeah...the LS and ZC have ball-and-socket rocker assemblies. I've had a rocker arm jump out on me when adjusting the valves. I know a guy who had one jump out due to an improper valve adjustment.

I really don't think I would trust them to 9k.

Sonny

tgreaves

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sonny &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah...the LS and ZC have ball-and-socket rocker assemblies. I've had a rocker arm jump out on me when adjusting the valves. I know a guy who had one jump out due to an improper valve adjustment.

I really don't think I would trust them to 9k.

Sonny</TD></TR></TABLE>


I rebuilt a Toyota tercel head once that had a style like that.. Also it had clips that held the rocker tight against the socket but I dont know if Honda has that or not..

DRAGLS

on a LS with a properly setup valvetrain you can take it to 9K I personally take mine to 8500k I am running the crower 404's.

Sonny

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DRAGLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on a LS with a properly setup valvetrain you can take it to 9K I personally take mine to 8500k I am running the crower 404's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're a braver man than I.

Sonny

DragSource

I'll be running crower 402t's and crower valvesprings/ret's and ss valves.

Perhaps I should stick to 8k, lol.

&lt;----- hopes and prays he can spool his newly purchased turbo. . . thinks he may have to go to a larger than stock bore to get er' done.

(holset hx35 with 14cm^2 turbine housing)

If not I can always swap the 14cm for the 12cm housing

blackeg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tgreaves &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I rebuilt a Toyota tercel head once that had a style like that.. Also it had clips that held the rocker tight against the socket but I dont know if Honda has that or not..</TD></TR></TABLE>

i had a tercel as my first car. that thing sucked. it was slower than my bicycle.

i remember hearing many people say that keeping the stock ls rockers to about 7500 is the safest bet. over the summer i plan on getting the 402-t for my ls, but as of now i run stock cams. i shift at 7k, but thats cause im a wuss

DragSource

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i remember hearing many people say that keeping the stock ls rockers to about 7500 is the safest bet.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Was this from a thread on here? I'd like to read more about it.

non-VTEC

i would rev my N/A LS head to 8k all the time. no problems.........


i think up to 8500rpm would be fine.....i dont think you can make that much more power higer even with turbo......

DragSource

Probably not - even with a wildly ported head and cams to support it.

Oh well - I'll go as high as it makes power. . . if I throw a rocker, I'll put a vtec head on it and call it a day.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tgreaves &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The problem with a really high rpm is that you will float the valves causing the piston to hit the valve before the springs have fully pulled the valve back on to its seat..</TD></TR></TABLE>

During that moment of "valve float", the rocker is NOT in contact with both the valve stem and cam as the valve spring hasn't be able to pull the valve back in time.

In theory couldn't it pop out at that point if given the right side load at the right time?

blackeg

i remember hearing it from boosted hybrid actually, though i dont remember if it was him saying it on here or if it was off his website.

tgreaves

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had a tercel as my first car. that thing sucked. it was slower than my bicycle.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats a kinda broad range there.. Suppose your bicycle was a GSXR 750??

VTC_CiViC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sonny &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah...the LS and ZC have ball-and-socket rocker assemblies. I've had a rocker arm jump out on me when adjusting the valves. I know a guy who had one jump out due to an improper valve adjustment.

I really don't think I would trust them to 9k.

Sonny</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was acutally tuning a built B18A once, kept telling myslef "my god this thing is awfull slow", especially considering the size of the turbo, amount of boost etc.. Long story short, I decided to check the guys' valve lash only to find 1 rocker just laying on it's side under the valve cover, my god LS valve trains are frightning!!

Toda Party

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I was acutally tuning a built B18A once, kept telling myslef "my god this thing is awfull slow", especially considering the size of the turbo, amount of boost etc.. Long story short, I decided to check the guys' valve lash only to find 1 rocker just laying on it's side under the valve cover, my god LS valve trains are frightning!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

same **** happened to me lol, the rocker was just laying there between the valvesprings

DragSource

How high were these cars reving?

Lightened valvetrain?

I have read that lightening up your valvetrain to help the response time will help this problem.

SPOOLINmatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tgreaves &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The valve is on the bottom the rocker and the cam is on the top and the rockers never loose contact with the cam or valves so there is no way for them to get loose.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

if its like that then the clearances are seriously bad. there had to be a gap between the rocker and the cam lobe at some point for adjustment sake. and there is also a gap between the rocker and the valve stem. its called the valve lash clearance.

non-VTEC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_ohgodnotagain_CiViC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I was acutally tuning a built B18A once, kept telling myslef "my god this thing is awfull slow", especially considering the size of the turbo, amount of boost etc.. Long story short, I decided to check the guys' valve lash only to find 1 rocker just laying on it's side under the valve cover, my god LS valve trains are frightning!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

damn that is pretty crazy.....i buzzed my LS head to 9500rpm a few times with no i'll effects but i deffinatly would not reccomend it.....

XXXRacing

I know jimbo from stage 6 has had some problems with his car and rocker arms breaking, don't think he was going much above 8000 RPMs. Brian