Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 1
From: VA, USA
Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA
I've used the stock seats in my ITR with an autopower rollbar and G-Force 5 point harnesses for the last few HPDE's I've done with NASA. I thought I had heard that you know had to have fixed back seats when using a roll bar and/or harnesses. When looking in the rulebook I found in section 11.4.12 stating something along the lines that if a stock seat was in use measures should be taken to keep the seat from submarining under thr rollbar. Do I now need to add something, get fixed back seats, or will I be able to continue as I have in the past? -Thanks-
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 1
From: VA, USA
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (Chris F)
Mine as well get seats. With fixed back seats will I still need the brace? Also do they have to be FIA certified for HPDE's? Money's the limiting factor here. I'm trying to get the R ready for VIR in February after 2 years in storage. College doesn't allow much time for work to pay for car parts.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 13,483
Likes: 0
From: cali
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (HondaRcB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaRcB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mine as well get seats. With fixed back seats will I still need the brace? Also do they have to be FIA certified for HPDE's? Money's the limiting factor here. I'm trying to get the R ready for VIR in February after 2 years in storage. College doesn't allow much time for work to pay for car parts. </TD></TR></TABLE>
if you don't get an FIA approved seat then you will have to get a back brace.
if you don't get an FIA approved seat then you will have to get a back brace.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 0
From: Southern, MD
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (slammed_93_hatch)
I have an FIA expired seat, and I was unaware for HPDE's that they required current date?
I know there is a 2 year limit on harnesses, but is this also in effect for HPDE's?
Neither NASA MA, or OH/IN have checked during my tech.
I know there is a 2 year limit on harnesses, but is this also in effect for HPDE's?
Neither NASA MA, or OH/IN have checked during my tech.
H-T Order of Merit
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 96,483
Likes: 38
From: Siege Perilous
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (HondaRcB)
The best person to get to comment about this is Jim Politi, who wrote most of the CCR. He is especially concerned with safety issues and I am sure he would be happy to help you out.
Whether you'd actually make it out on track with your setup is probably going to depend on your instructor's perceptions of the safety, or if you're Group 3 it will depend on Kaan's perceptions of the safety of your setup.
Whether you'd actually make it out on track with your setup is probably going to depend on your instructor's perceptions of the safety, or if you're Group 3 it will depend on Kaan's perceptions of the safety of your setup.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 0
From: Southern, MD
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The best person to get to comment about this is Jim Politi, who wrote most of the CCR. He is especially concerned with safety issues and I am sure he would be happy to help you out.
Whether you'd actually make it out on track with your setup is probably going to depend on your instructor's perceptions of the safety, or if you're Group 3 it will depend on Kaan's perceptions of the safety of your setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So is it the instructors discretion?
Whether you'd actually make it out on track with your setup is probably going to depend on your instructor's perceptions of the safety, or if you're Group 3 it will depend on Kaan's perceptions of the safety of your setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So is it the instructors discretion?
Trending Topics
H-T Order of Merit
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 96,483
Likes: 38
From: Siege Perilous
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (My95SlvrBlt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by My95SlvrBlt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So is it the instructors discretion?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think I'd better let him answer that. I have not kept up with developments since my car got more or less totally outfitted.
I sent him a PM and an email asking him to comment.
So is it the instructors discretion?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think I'd better let him answer that. I have not kept up with developments since my car got more or less totally outfitted.
I sent him a PM and an email asking him to comment.
H-T Order of Merit
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 96,483
Likes: 38
From: Siege Perilous
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (George Knighton)
Grumpy forgot his password. Just reset it for him.
It sounds from what he said on the phone a second ago that if you change anything with your car's safety equipment, that you have to go by the CCR racing rules in order to limit liability to those things that NASA actually does approve of.
It sounds from what he said on the phone a second ago that if you change anything with your car's safety equipment, that you have to go by the CCR racing rules in order to limit liability to those things that NASA actually does approve of.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 13,483
Likes: 0
From: cali
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It sounds from what he said on the phone a second ago that if you change anything with your car's safety equipment, that you have to go by the CCR racing rules in order to limit liability to those things that NASA actually does approve of.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats what the norcal head tech inspector says too.
It sounds from what he said on the phone a second ago that if you change anything with your car's safety equipment, that you have to go by the CCR racing rules in order to limit liability to those things that NASA actually does approve of.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats what the norcal head tech inspector says too.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,399
Likes: 3
From: Chicagoland, IL
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Grumpy forgot his password. Just reset it for him.
It sounds from what he said on the phone a second ago that if you change anything with your car's safety equipment, that you have to go by the CCR racing rules in order to limit liability to those things that NASA actually does approve of.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's a little creepy though.. a roll bar is OK, expired *but in good shape* harnesses are OK, etc. It's enough of a judgement call, that I'd recomment people stick with bone-stock safety equipement or make the jump to a dedicated racecar (or buy a nice used H1 car for $5500, less than the price of the safety equipment anyway!)
It sounds from what he said on the phone a second ago that if you change anything with your car's safety equipment, that you have to go by the CCR racing rules in order to limit liability to those things that NASA actually does approve of.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's a little creepy though.. a roll bar is OK, expired *but in good shape* harnesses are OK, etc. It's enough of a judgement call, that I'd recomment people stick with bone-stock safety equipement or make the jump to a dedicated racecar (or buy a nice used H1 car for $5500, less than the price of the safety equipment anyway!)
H-T Order of Merit
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 96,483
Likes: 38
From: Siege Perilous
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (Chris F)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's a little creepy though.. a roll bar is OK, expired *but in good shape* harnesses are OK, etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It sounded to me like Jim was saying that it is NOT OK any longer.
It's a little creepy though.. a roll bar is OK, expired *but in good shape* harnesses are OK, etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It sounded to me like Jim was saying that it is NOT OK any longer.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 0
From: Southern, MD
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (George Knighton)
Would an FIA belt be good for 5 years, or is it till the erxpiration date? Ive got some FIA belts good till 2009/2010, and on the pass side, ive got an SFI which was manufactured in may 06.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 0
From: 8 blocks from George Bush, DC
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (HondaRcB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaRcB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've used the stock seats in my ITR with...G-Force 5 point harnesses </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry for the big picture. How do you have your sub-belt routed?
Sorry for the big picture. How do you have your sub-belt routed?
H-T Order of Merit
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 96,483
Likes: 38
From: Siege Perilous
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (Another Drew)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Another Drew »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sorry for the big picture. How do you have your sub-belt routed?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It was common for about two years for DC2 ITR owners to have harnesses and roll bars with their OEM seats. They all would have the antisub belt routed the wrong way, bolted forward and coming 'round the front of the seat bottom.
Come to think of it, it seems to me a lot of racers have the mounting position of the antisub belt in the wrong place.
Sorry for the big picture. How do you have your sub-belt routed?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It was common for about two years for DC2 ITR owners to have harnesses and roll bars with their OEM seats. They all would have the antisub belt routed the wrong way, bolted forward and coming 'round the front of the seat bottom.
Come to think of it, it seems to me a lot of racers have the mounting position of the antisub belt in the wrong place.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,753
Likes: 1
From: Where snow is, I am.
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if you don't get an FIA approved seat then you will have to get a back brace.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I apologize for being OT, but where exactly can u find out if the seat you have is FIA approved. Is there a label on the seats?
I have a Corbeau Forza. TIA.
if you don't get an FIA approved seat then you will have to get a back brace.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I apologize for being OT, but where exactly can u find out if the seat you have is FIA approved. Is there a label on the seats?
I have a Corbeau Forza. TIA.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Livin near Clay
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (My95SlvrBlt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by My95SlvrBlt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">even with my SFI saying 2010??
I assume its safe to say my FIA expired seat needs a brace?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I meant the FIA belts only in my previous post.....
NASA CCR section 15.5...
10. All belts should meet at least one of the following:
A) SFI Specification 16.1 or 16.5 (for use with HANS only) and shall bear a
dated label of no more than two (2) years old. At least one date label is
required on belt sets.
B) A restraint system meeting FIA spec #8853/1985, 8853/98, or D-###.T/98,
including amendment 1/92 may be used. FIA certified belts have a label that
shows an expiration date. The belts cannot be used past December 31st of
the year shown on the label. At least one date label is required on belt sets.
15.6.22 Seat Back Support
A seatback support must be made to hold the seat from going back in the event of a
crash. A plate should be used to distribute the load. No bolts, corners, or sharp objects
should be placed is such a manner that could lead to a possible puncture of the driver in
a high impact crash. Proper design and installation is crucial to safety and it is
recommend that the driver employ the services of a professional race car builder for this,
as well as all other vehicle safety items. An exception may be made for those seats
homologated to, and mounted in accordance, with FIA 8855-1999 standards. Those
seats that qualify for the aforementioned exception must conform to the entire FIA 8855-
1999 set of regulations. This includes a mandatory seat replacement of any seat more
than five (5) years old. Please reference the FIA regulations. http://www.fia.com/
I assume its safe to say my FIA expired seat needs a brace?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I meant the FIA belts only in my previous post.....
NASA CCR section 15.5...
10. All belts should meet at least one of the following:
A) SFI Specification 16.1 or 16.5 (for use with HANS only) and shall bear a
dated label of no more than two (2) years old. At least one date label is
required on belt sets.
B) A restraint system meeting FIA spec #8853/1985, 8853/98, or D-###.T/98,
including amendment 1/92 may be used. FIA certified belts have a label that
shows an expiration date. The belts cannot be used past December 31st of
the year shown on the label. At least one date label is required on belt sets.
15.6.22 Seat Back Support
A seatback support must be made to hold the seat from going back in the event of a
crash. A plate should be used to distribute the load. No bolts, corners, or sharp objects
should be placed is such a manner that could lead to a possible puncture of the driver in
a high impact crash. Proper design and installation is crucial to safety and it is
recommend that the driver employ the services of a professional race car builder for this,
as well as all other vehicle safety items. An exception may be made for those seats
homologated to, and mounted in accordance, with FIA 8855-1999 standards. Those
seats that qualify for the aforementioned exception must conform to the entire FIA 8855-
1999 set of regulations. This includes a mandatory seat replacement of any seat more
than five (5) years old. Please reference the FIA regulations. http://www.fia.com/
be professional
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 14,842
Likes: 13
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (poison)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poison »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I apologize for being OT, but where exactly can u find out if the seat you have is FIA approved. Is there a label on the seats?
I have a Corbeau Forza. TIA. </TD></TR></TABLE>
There is a big FIA sticker on the seat that says "FIA 8855-1999" and lists a date of manufacture.
Take note, the Corbeau Forza (and all other Corbeau seats) are no longer FIA approved: http://www.cams.com.au/content...D=322
I have a Corbeau Forza. TIA. </TD></TR></TABLE>
There is a big FIA sticker on the seat that says "FIA 8855-1999" and lists a date of manufacture.
Take note, the Corbeau Forza (and all other Corbeau seats) are no longer FIA approved: http://www.cams.com.au/content...D=322
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 0
From: Southern, MD
Upon checking my harnesses. The Schroth says FIA-Txxxxx, and then on my pass harness, a Gforce, says SFI Approval spec.xxx, below that flap tag, its got an FIAxxx do not use past date....
Does that mean the gforce is good till its printed date of 2010? That'd be a 4 year belt.
Does that mean the gforce is good till its printed date of 2010? That'd be a 4 year belt.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,753
Likes: 1
From: Where snow is, I am.
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (Targa250R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There is a big FIA sticker on the seat that says "FIA 8855-1999" and lists a date of manufacture.
Take note, the Corbeau Forza (and all other Corbeau seats) are no longer FIA approved: http://www.cams.com.au/content...D=322</TD></TR></TABLE>
So with that said, a seat back is required in addition to using the Corbeau seat or is the Corbeau technically banned from HPDE's altogether?
There is a big FIA sticker on the seat that says "FIA 8855-1999" and lists a date of manufacture.
Take note, the Corbeau Forza (and all other Corbeau seats) are no longer FIA approved: http://www.cams.com.au/content...D=322</TD></TR></TABLE>
So with that said, a seat back is required in addition to using the Corbeau seat or is the Corbeau technically banned from HPDE's altogether?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 13,483
Likes: 0
From: cali
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (poison)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poison »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So with that said, a seat back is required in addition to using the Corbeau seat or is the Corbeau technically banned from HPDE's altogether?</TD></TR></TABLE>
seat back brack and it is legal.
So with that said, a seat back is required in addition to using the Corbeau seat or is the Corbeau technically banned from HPDE's altogether?</TD></TR></TABLE>
seat back brack and it is legal.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,753
Likes: 1
From: Where snow is, I am.
Re: Roll bar/harnesses with stock seats with NASA (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
seat back brack and it is legal.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks.
seat back brack and it is legal.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
