Ok so my timing belt broke on me again as some of you know and my R has been sitting for nearly 2 months now... I have a good chunk of money available to spend on it right now and I wanna get this thing taken to 2 liters....and am pretty much doing alot of the work myself besides the actual valve repair (don't know how many, if any, valves are bent) and block work.
Look at what I have and what I am thinking about doing and let me know what some of you engine guys think... I know a good amount but I know many of you know much more than I do about the technical issues. Thanks guys...

What I have already...:

Portflow P&P head,
ti retainers,
Toda Spec C cams, (will be ordering Toda D's shortly)
Toda cam gears,
Toda valve springs,
CTR .25 pistons,
rc 310 injectors,
aem fuel rail,
fidanza aluminum flywheel,
act hdss clutch,
dc jdm 4-1 header,
SMSP custom 2.5” testpipe
SMSP custom 2.5" ss cat back exhaust,
injen short ram intake,
hondata standalone management.

What I talked to 92typeR about:

Quote from Earl Laskey of LaskeyRacing (Earl on H-T)

Breakdown..
> $950 Benson Sleeves install/cylinder hone
> $150 Benson balanced/micropolished crank
> $495 CP Pistons and rings
> $365 Eagle Rods w/ARP rod bolts
> $100 ACL bearings
> $250 OEM oil/water pump
> $50 Gasket/seal set
> $490 Blue print and assembly
> $125 USA (lower 48) delivery

I am looking at either the 2 liter DTR header or the Hytech Header.

I am thinking maybe ITB's? But I kinda want some reliability and I know its hard to filter them..

I want 265 wheel out of this engine. What do you think guys?

 

265 at the wheels is gonna be tough. I know someone with an 86mmx89mm stroke GSR block, B16 headgames head, cams, etc, barely makes 250whp.

Id say slightly bigger injectors (440s), bigger pistons (obviously), high compression, maybe ITBs, good header, and serious tuning.

Earl offers a pretty nice deal

 

Definately a smart move dealing with Earl . Benson is top notch and Earl is a cool d00d. If/when I go 2.0L it will be him I deal with.

Marshall is a wealth of knowledge AND a cool d00d as well(get to the track so I can meet you in person for christ sake ).

Bigger injectors definately. ITB's are awesome but they are tricky to tune, so I've heard. There are a few guys up here that daily ITB's so it's a streetable set-up. If tuned right they should idle and run no problem. You may need to upgrade to a more aggressive clutch as well to handle all that new found hp.

Other than that, you're on the right track.

 

if you're looking for filters to go over your ITB's, check out a motorcycle shop and ask to see what kind of suzuki filters they have. My friend is running a set off a GSXR something that fits perfectly over his TWM ITB's.

 

breakdown seems real similar to my build so far....don't forget headstuds also. how big are you going to go?

 

I am not too familiar with the headstuds part of all this...

And I assume by big you mean bore and stroke....maybe 85-89 or 86-89. I gotta look into that part of it more..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by totsie7944 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am not too familiar with the headstuds part of all this...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Headstuds replace headbolts. More info here:

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Catalog/Catalog.html

 

hmmmm ok thanks man

 

You may want to request OEM Honda bearings so you can acutally BLUEPRINT the enigne.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by totsie7944 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want 265 wheel out of this engine.
What do you think guys?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry to hear of your ongoing problems, but boost is the answer you need to hear!

Of course, a fresh block and head work would go a long way i that respect ...

 

X2. to get 260+ N/A on B series is HARD.

it would be alot cheaper and easier to go boost but yeah i am a n/a guy as well lol

your setup sounds very nice to me so far..

i wish i could have bored out/ sleeved to make it a 2.0L itr too but damn i am stiuck with ctr pistons for now

 

Well not to be a ***. But you need to start doing your homework on this. Look up all the 2 liter built and read them. You need to ask yourself what do you want. Are you going to daily driver this thing or do you have another car you can drive.

You said "you have a good chunk of money available to spend" well you better have 5000 to 7000 or more. 2 liter built is not cheap.

From you list:
Portflow P&P head,
ti retainers, Find something better (Call RLZ)
Toda Spec C cams, (will be ordering Toda D's shortly) Find something better (bigger does not mean better)
Toda cam gears,
Toda valve springs, Find something better (Call RLZ)
CTR .25 pistons, Find something better
rc 310 injectors,
aem fuel rail, No need
fidanza aluminum flywheel,
act hdss clutch,
dc jdm 4-1 header, Find something better. I see on the bottom you looking at DTR or Hytech thats good.
SMSP custom 2.5” testpipe It's good. but 3".......
SMSP custom 2.5" ss cat back exhaust, It's good. but 3".......
injen short ram intake, Look at something else. Lets not talk about ITB's right now.
hondata standalone management. It's ok. But how about EMS.

&gt; $950 Benson Sleeves install/cylinder hone
&gt; $150 Benson balanced/micropolished crank
&gt; $495 CP Pistons and rings Still too heavy.
&gt; $365 Eagle Rods w/ARP rod bolts Rods still too heavy.
&gt; $100 ACL bearings OEM
&gt; $250 OEM oil/water pump
&gt; $50 Gasket/seal set
&gt; $490 Blue print and assembly
&gt; $125 USA (lower 48) delivery

And you said you want to do the work by yourself? Building the motor? You better send it off to someone that have done this before.

Or just try to call Brad at RLZ. He is going to ask you what I just ask you and more. But be patient he is very busy. Or any good shops out there.

And 265whp hmmmm right.............

If I were you. I'll get that stock motor with the C's in it fix. If there is not alot of damage (Or just go with A's and just have fun with the car). And just run that and save you money on something later.


Modified by Type-R Yo! at 11:05 PM 7/7/2006

 

I think you should have them use OEM bearings instead of the ACL.
Just my own opinion from what has always worked for me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by totsie7944 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want 265 wheel out of this engine. What do you think guys?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

265 is very hard to achieve on pump gas with a B-series. We have 2 motors making over 270whp, one is a 85x98, makes 200tq, but runs on methanol. The other is a 14:1 86x89, running on 101 at this point.

I've only made as much as 228whp, but I'm still on a stock head and 1.8L header.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Type-R Yo! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Or just try to call Brad at RLZ. He is going to ask you what I just ask you and more. But be patient he is very busy. Or any good shops out there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

We are still waiting on a head from RLZ that we sent out 8 months ago. He is very backed up. You can get a CNC'd head from Endyn. The new pent-clover heads Larry does makes great midrange.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vivid 02 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you should have them use OEM bearings instead of the ACL.
Just my own opinion from what has always worked for me.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

OEM's are great, but ACL's work as well, and are much more affordable. I've been on my ACL's for over 10k miles with a 9500rpm rev limiter and dozens of dyno's, drag passes, and over 30 hours on the track.

You're on the right path. But you will have to find a good head to break 240whp.

 

ACL's sell for $30 bucks at a local place around me. So yeah they are very affordable.
OEM's are welll just too much $$$. I have never tried ACL's but I known lots of people who have used them with great success.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92TypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

OEM's are great, but ACL's work as well, and are much more affordable. I've been on my ACL's for over 10k miles with a 9500rpm rev limiter and dozens of dyno's, drag passes, and over 30 hours on the track.

Y</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please tell me how you blueprint an engine with ACL bearings?

 

Hmm well I planned on spending like $8,000 to get this all done....

As for the parts I listed. I looked at Laskeys sight, and I would be getting the Pauter Rods.

As for my valve train, I like toda. I haven't had any problems with Toda thus far and have made very good power. My header is holding me back alot.

I am now thinking a more modest 240-245 wheel is more reachable. I might decide to keep the Toda C's.

As for exhaust how much more power will I really see with a 3" over the SMS 2.5"?

But for you boost enthusiast.....Heres what I'm looking at. It will cost me like 3500 for the block to be built. If I opted for lower compression pistons and went turbo, how much am I looking all and all to hit over 400 wheel?

 

Have you thought about going k-series? It would probably be much easier to hit 265 whp then it would by going 2 liter.

 

it would cost me like $9000 just to get the Kseries in my R without mods haha

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by totsie7944 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it would cost me like $9000 just to get the Kseries in my R without mods haha</TD></TR></TABLE>

It that after you sell all the parts you have and the engine? When I was thinking about doing a k20a swap the total came to around $9000 - $4000 (selling the b18c5) and that was with a DTR header and hondata kpro.

edit: I forgot about the work that would have to be done to fix the engine. Yeah would definitly cost more then.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ausmith &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Please tell me how you blueprint an engine with ACL bearings?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Blueprinting is just the term for documenting clearances. Just because ACL's come in one size, does not mean you cannot check clearances. Regardless, all the motors we have built have had no clearance issues with ACL's, they've all been spot on. If the crank has been machined, there might be problems, but so far havn't encountered any.

For arguments sake, have you had any bad experiences with ACL's? Or for that matter, heard of any?

If I had an unlimited budget I would use OEM bearings, but ACL's do the job just as well.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spids5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you thought about going k-series? It would probably be much easier to hit 265 whp then it would by going 2 liter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If 250+ is the goal, K-series is the easiest route. Especially if you do a K24 setup.

 

easiet, but maybe i will just go for 250 wheel haha. its kinda a personal thing. lol

 

Is this a race car or daily driver? What do you expect from this car?

 

Bluepriniting usually refers to setting the clearances that you choose for the build. Not do-able with ACL's unless you get into the journals which is not smart or cost effective.

RLZ is always backed up. Brad mentioned to me one time that he does over 60 heads a year...60 B series heads a year.

CP Pistons are light if you get the X-Forged. For a build like this though I'd just get some customs made. Only way to get them really light is to go skirtless. But a skirtless setup won't last that long before it needs to be rebuilt. Eagle rods are heavy but get the job done. Some Crower, Cunningham, or Carillo's would be better though (prices range from just over 700 up to 1,850). Weight doesn't really affect power until you're spinning over 9,500. Other than that it is just for response.

As far as the headwork, it would help if you have a flowsheet (should have been provided with the headwork).

Don't get caught up in peak numbers. That is only one number at a certain RPM (or a couple hundred maybe). Instead I'd focus on a good powerband with good response.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92TypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Blueprinting is just the term for documenting clearances. Just because ACL's come in one size, does not mean you cannot check clearances. Regardless, all the motors we have built have had no clearance issues with ACL's, they've all been spot on. If the crank has been machined, there might be problems, but so far havn't encountered any.

For arguments sake, have you had any bad experiences with ACL's? Or for that matter, heard of any?

If I had an unlimited budget I would use OEM bearings, but ACL's do the job just as well.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree - Blueprinting means to build a motor to a pre-determined specification - that being a blueprint.

I would say you are quite lucky to have all the clearances be spot on.

What I really don't understand is why you measure the bearings at all... if you can't change the clearance then why measure? If you are going to take all the time to set-up and measure the bearings why in the heck wouldn't you just use OEM bearings. A set of OEM bearings sells for $200 on the street. If you look at the cost difference between ACL and OEM relative to the cost of the project it just seems completely foolish not to use the best bearings you can get - OEM HONDA.

Yes there have been 3 motors in the last 6 months with wiped out ACL bearings come through our shop. In two cases the crank was junk... no fun having to build your motor a second time and buy a new crank and/or rods.

To the OP:
IMHO if you are going to go through all the work of pulling your motor, forking over $2500-5000 to build it, waiting for it to be built, putting it back in the car, and then tuning it - you should absolutely spend an extra $100 for OEM bearings and have the builder set the oil clearances on the loose end of the range and achieve a high degree of consistancy between each journal.