I searched, read over 300 posts, but I couldn't find some specific questions answered.

I have been recently going over the idea of trading the ITR for an s2k. I just have a couple questions on comparing the two. I have driven 3 s2k's, both an ap1 and an ap2 but was not able to actually drive them to a level where I feel I could answer my own questions. I know a couple of people here have had both cars, and feel like I can get a nice honest response from the ITR crew.

1. I love how the ITR brakes very quickly and it is super responsive. A quick touch at 40 mph and the ITR will be at 20 in a second. Does the s2k have this type of brake feel to it? Does the braking vary depending on ap1 ap2? (This may be a question I have to ask in the s2k forum)

2. I realize the ap2's seem to be a little faster, but the ap1's seem to have a little more of a raw feeling. With the ap1 performance closer to the ITR performance (the ap2 being above both as I understand), does the raw feeling of the ap1 feel anything like that of the ITR when driving pretty harshly?

3. How does the cost of maintaining the s2k compare to the ITR? I assume they are both honda's with great reliability, but just curious to see if there are any hidden tricks to the s2k maintence.

Those are the big ones that I just seem to not be able to find. Just for a little closer, for the ones who have done the swap have you been happy with the new s2k or did you wish you would of never changed?

 

I really liked driving Dave-ROR's for about 300+ miles on the way to expo. I have the say, with the drive by wire I was impressed. Very responsive and didn't at all feel like there was no cable. Me personally though, I'm not a fan of convertables so if I got one, I'd have to get an OEM hardtop as well.

 

I like the convertable actually. As far as the Drive by wire, I was looking at either an 03 or 04.

 

Aren't those DBW as well? I thought I asked Dave that. I know the first ride I ever got in one, I was highly impressed at the braking. That was back in 01. Though, that was also before I'd ever driven an ITR.

 

Nah. The '06 introduced DBW w/VSC.

1.) The brake feel is about the same at the limit (on the track). Can't really say which is the better overall braking car but that's what mags are for. One thing is for sure though. The ABS on the S2000 seems extra sensitive and is definitely less threshold type braking like the ITR. The ABS on the ITR is better.

2.) It's a matter of preference. The AP2, for all intents and purposes should be a tad bit faster than an AP1. Feeling wise, I think they're about the same. The AP1s are a tad more twitcher to handle which some prefer. The AP2 seems more like the ITR, IMHO since it's easier to drive fast.

3.) Costs a tad bit more. Extra quart of oil for the engine, an additional oil for the rear differential and pads/rotors cost more. Other than that, it's still a Honda.

<---traded in his ITR for a S2K.

 

I drove my friend's completely stock AP1 S2K, i could really drive it hard in the corner tho because the feeling of the AP1 in the corner isn't really stable under highspeed...maybe i get used to my mod. itr and i didn't drive RWD for long time

 

1. The initial braking feel of ITR is definitely more pronouced than in AP1/2. This maybe be due to the curb weight of the cars (~3/400 lb difference), rather than the actual braking ability. I haven't had to threshold brake in the S2K... but, it stops just fine.

2. Get whatever is in your budget. People who want 9000rpm redline tend to go for AP1. People who want newer cars go for AP2. If you can actually drive one faster than the other, than you're better than 99% of the people on the S2ki board. They drive about the same in all intensive purposes.

3. Cost of maintenance isn't that different... especially, both the ITR & S2k were/are my weekend cars. If you care to know, highway mpg on s2000 is not as good.

- ITR is a fun/inexpensive car to drive fast. S2000 is a fun/inexpensive car to cruise. They are both great... I just didn't like the paranoid that came with the R.

 

Brake pedal in S is stiffer - requires more leg force but both cars stop very effectively. Powertrains are very similar but I actually prefer the R - probably mostly due to lack of sound insulation. Steering precision/control goes to S in a big way (quick ratio, more force feedback, no body roll). Can be a bit twitchy in corners, but once you get used to it - not a problem.

If I could only have 1 of them, it would be the R without question due to practicality.

 

their are similar in "rawness" especially if you get a ap1 but its more than a itr IMO, stock is kinda rough ride, the steering response is way better on a s2k, funner to drive, faster, who ever said they like the itr shifter better isn't used to the S, put some gears and you'll be hitting 13's no prob.

one of the main reasons i sold my integra is because of theft, i didn't want to get it stolen, the integra is more practical, easier to work on, cheaper parts, more parts available, the s motor is maxed out N/A, parts are wayyy more expensive on a s2k, as far as brakes, i think their pretty similar, itr is lighter so it feels like it stops better but i think the pedal is just harder on the s2k.

i haven't looked back on selling my integra. i just dont care for covertables, i want a hardtop.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itrdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If I could only have 1 of them, it would be the R without question due to practicality.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Take the practicality issue away, would you pick the S?

 

I own both and once THK drove with me, he traded in his ITR for S2K.

Goto the S2K forum or http://www.s2ki.com for more info on S2K's.

Right now, the S2K is my only car (ITR is in NY, I am in Dallas) and it is somewhat of a pain to live with it as the sole car.

Besides basic practicality, I love the S2K as a daily and prefer the ITR on the track....not because the ITR is faster, it is just easier to drive.

 

The lack of a real trunk and being able to haul stuff is a pain in the *** sometimes. Perfectly fine for getting groceries and whatnot but I had to call a friend with an Integra to go HDTV shopping. If I still had my Hype R, I would've been able to do everything myself.

But other than the lack of trunk space, I prefer the S2K over the ITR. On a nice day/evening, top down driving = .

 

yeah the twitchy feeling on ap1's kinda scary

 

AP2 is NOT faster than AP1, both are similar in terms of speed.

As far as "raw" MY00 is as close to it as you can get. The MY02-03 had stronger trannies and the glass top, which most prefer. As far as comparing it to an ITR, I would say it brakes just as well, but it definetely is much faster. Also the ITR is a lot easier to drive ona track.

The Ap1 is less forgiving than the AP2 in terms of handling.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cosworth &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

3. Cost of maintenance isn't that different... especially, both the ITR & S2k were/are my weekend cars. If you care to know, highway mpg on s2000 is not as good.

- ITR is a fun/inexpensive car to drive fast. S2000 is a fun/inexpensive car to cruise. They are both great... I just didn't like the paranoid that came with the R. </TD></TR></TABLE>

S2k parts are more expensive. Not by a huge amount, but definately more. And you stated exactly that in your last statement.

As far as MPG, I averaged about 27-28 on the highway with the ITR and 30 with the S2000. That was with numerous tests. Both cars were stock, drove to the same place (my parent's house, which is about 250 miles away) and used the same gas.

But I agree, both are great. I also just hated the attention (from the wrong people) and paranoia with the ITR.

If I could, I'd have both.

Oh, and opt for the AP2.

 

I beg to differ with the whole premis of an S2K being faster than the ITR. I've only seen two videos of both of them on a track at the same time, and the stock ITR won both by at least a second or two. One of the videos was BMI vol 1. (This comparison, however, does leave the drivers of the vehicles under speculation, I know)

Stock for stock, the S2K might be a faster car on the street, but my research shows me that's not the case on the track.

 

just cause in 1 video the itr beat a s2k doesn't mean its always the same outcome, the s2k is a difficult car to drive, the itr can keep up,

the the s2k is a better plateform. wait, wait, the ITR never loses!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P Nut &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As far as MPG, I averaged about 27-28 on the highway with the ITR and 30 with the S2000. That was with numerous tests. Both cars were stock, drove to the same place (my parent's house, which is about 250 miles away) and used the same gas.
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Thats it?? I consistently get 26-28 MPG around town in the ITR. Highway is more along the lines of 31-34

27-28 seems very low to me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98 ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I beg to differ with the whole premis of an S2K being faster than the ITR. I've only seen two videos of both of them on a track at the same time, and the stock ITR won both by at least a second or two. One of the videos was BMI vol 1. (This comparison, however, does leave the drivers of the vehicles under speculation, I know)

Stock for stock, the S2K might be a faster car on the street, but my research shows me that's not the case on the track.</TD></TR></TABLE>

In BMI races, they usually line up the car in reverse order (according to time). The Type R Legends video that I saw showed the Type R crossing the line before the S2k, but if you look at the lap times, it clearly shows the S2k on top.

BTW, I don't have a clue what you mean by "being faster on the street."

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Larkin W. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thats it?? I consistently get 26-28 MPG around town in the ITR. Highway is more along the lines of 31-34

27-28 seems very low to me </TD></TR></TABLE>

Where do you live? When I used to live in NC, being in a lower elevation, I seemed to get 2-3mpg more than here in Utah (5000-7000ft above sea level). Plus, 91 is considered premium (don't know if that makes a difference). But the point being, the S2000 does NOT get bad highway gas mileage. It's just as good as the ITR's, if not better.

Another factor might be that there are a lot of hills/mountains around this area. That will definately eat up the gas mileage. Perhaps the extra little torque in the S2k helped out.

 

Good points. I'm in Flat Nebraska

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P Nut &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW, I don't have a clue what you mean by "being faster on the street."

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Meaning .. usable power on the street..... torque, gear ratios, ect.

If my car can beat yours in short sprints on the street, but you car beats me on the track ... my car is a faster street car.

And good call on the BMI thing ... never noticed the lap time on the S2K. Ah well ... less than 1 second diffrence means that there is still a possibility of an ITR winning on any given day. I still say that an ITR wins in an endurance battle.