Hey room wassup??? I was wondering what kind of timing numbers are you all running with 8.5-9.0 compression on your boosted cars... Im currently running a turbo b16a with forged internals and a 9.0 compression motor at about 9psi right now and way up top (8500 rpm) I'm at about 14 degrees of timing with an AEM EMS engine management... Can i go more and be safe on 93 octance pump gas??? I hear you can run about 22-24 deg. ???
Thanks All...

 

30*

 

Wow... Thats alot of heat in there... LOL Are you serious??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">30*</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're so mean .

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kdawgy2k1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow... Thats alot of heat in there... LOL Are you serious??</TD></TR></TABLE>

Get it tuned no one can and so no one should ever give you a "number" otherwise what's the point of being a tuner whenyou can just enter in a number . Street tune it and check the heat strap on the plugs or go on a dyno and nail it perfectly. Period end of thread

 

HaHa....You kinda do have a point, but I was just wondering what everyone else was running in terms of timing advance... I mean, im not asking to give out your tuner secrets but I do wanna know if thats cool...

 

Every car/setup is different, some like a more advanced timing maps, some dont, were you are now would be the place to strap the car on a dyno, as see if increasing the timing will produce more TQ and power, at some point you are going to stop making TQ, at that point adding timing is doing nothing but increasing cylinder pressure and heat and increasing the chance of knock/detonation.

Or you can do this the hard way and add a degree, make a pull, stop pull the plugs, and so on and so forth, but this wont tell you if you already reached max TQ or MBT, as most cars will reach this point wellll before you start to see or hear knock/detonation.

My advice...throw it on a dyno, and be done with the guessing games, as they can lead to a damaged motor and an empty wallet

on a side note, I run about 18deg's of final timing on 25PSI on 93oct(PTE SC61), with the aid of meth injection, on a street tune. I havnt been to the dyno 4 some time with my car, but as soon as I find time 4 myself its going to happen

So on 9psi you should be able to get away with around 24 degree's, as long as you check your plugs after the timing increase...

GET IT ON A DYNO

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kdawgy2k1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HaHa....You kinda do have a point, but I was just wondering what everyone else was running in terms of timing advance... I mean, im not asking to give out your tuner secrets but I do wanna know if thats cool...</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're missing the point . Unless you have the EXACT same setup I mean EVERYThing from turbo to IC piping size to manifold design to exact exhaust setup. All these things change Volumetric efficency which requires a specific tune for it. I don't think too many tuners hold "secrets" it's just a little complicated to understand why things happens. you can always read up though if you are curious. Do that or pay someone that already has done this reading

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown99civicsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Every car/setup is different, some like a more advanced timing maps, some dont, were you are now would be the place to strap the car on a dyno, as see if increasing the timing will produce more TQ and power, at some point you are going to stop making TQ, at that point adding timing is doing nothing but increasing cylinder pressure and heat and increasing the chance of knock/detonation.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not always. Sometimes you'll keep making power until you detonate...but the general idea is correct.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown99civicsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So on 9psi you should be able to get away with around 24 degree's, as long as you check your plugs after the timing increase...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's too much to do a base pull with. for 9PSI on b16 I'd do 18* to start and go from there.

 

This is why I said "Around" and I also said to start were he is now, and advance, while checking plugs.

I have tuned a **** load of B16's and 24Deg's so not alot. now on a D series, that is alot, as they dont like as much timing.

And yes as 4 the statment about reaching MBT, you are right "some" setups suffer from limitations such as heat and poor flow, so reaching your max MBT is harder and will require more timing, and you will at some point reach your knock threshold while still making power, which some turbo/SC cars do from the heat, and or the VE of the motor.

But in alot of cases you will find that point well before you reach your knock limit..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown99civicsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is why I said "Around" and I also said to start were he is now, and advance, while checking plugs.

And yes as 4 the statment about reaching MBT, you are right "some" setups suffer from limitations such as heat and poor flow, so reaching your max MBT is harder and will require more timing, and you will at some point reach your knock threshold while still making power, which some turbo/SC cars do from the heat, and or the VE of the motor.

But in alot of cases you will find that point well before you reach your knock limit..</TD></TR></TABLE>



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown99civicsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have tuned a **** load of B16's and 24Deg's so not alot. now on a D series, that is alot, as they dont like as much timing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can't agree that 24* is a safe starting limit. I think 24* can be the MBT on some cars, but is DEF. not a safe starting timing advance.

Too each his own though...I'd rather be safe then sorry

 

I dont agree the 24 is a good starting point either I was just pointing out that he should be able to get to timing numbers around 24 without much fuss.

So to make this clearer.. start were you are at now.. 14deg's and work up from there, after each run, pull the plugs, look and see how the burn is, go again if a looks/feels ok, until you reach your desider timing levels, but on the street playing with timing to a point is a dangerous game, thus the reason I said a DYNO would be the next step..

just be careful and take your time.. G/L

 

I'm running 11* at 10.5 A/F on 94 octane at 20psi... I think It's a little safe.