Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update
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From: Jetsetter
Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update
Pictures Updated 8/7/2006. This is the first working prototype. EF Arms are pictured. EG/DC/DA are all very similar.
Sorry for the delay... the "season" kind of takes over here at King Motorsports. We've got the first prototype done. Just need to install and test. . We decided on the straight bearing design for a number of reasons, but mainly to keep the cost down. I think we'll be looking at less than $200 for a set with the customer having to send their stock arms in for the operation. Turn-around should be 24-48 hours with express shipping available.
Kits will be available for DA, DC, EG, and EF chassis. They will allow a very minor amount of caster gain in the standard kit with an option for 0 caster change.
Enjoy some big pics.
Modified by Ausmith at 11:30 AM 8/7/2006
Modified by Ausmith at 2:08 PM 8/7/2006
Sorry for the delay... the "season" kind of takes over here at King Motorsports. We've got the first prototype done. Just need to install and test. . We decided on the straight bearing design for a number of reasons, but mainly to keep the cost down. I think we'll be looking at less than $200 for a set with the customer having to send their stock arms in for the operation. Turn-around should be 24-48 hours with express shipping available.
Kits will be available for DA, DC, EG, and EF chassis. They will allow a very minor amount of caster gain in the standard kit with an option for 0 caster change.
Enjoy some big pics.
Modified by Ausmith at 11:30 AM 8/7/2006
Modified by Ausmith at 2:08 PM 8/7/2006
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From: Portland OR
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (EdoMoto)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EdoMoto »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks nice too bad thats where i have my Camber adjustment.
Edo</TD></TR></TABLE>
Me too
Edo</TD></TR></TABLE>
Me too
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From: Jetsetter
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (EdoMoto)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EdoMoto »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks nice too bad thats where i have my Camber adjustment.
Edo</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you guys allowed to "notch" the factory control arm to move the mounting point of the bushing? That is what we typically do on these cars.
Edo</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you guys allowed to "notch" the factory control arm to move the mounting point of the bushing? That is what we typically do on these cars.
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From: Surrey, BC, Canada
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (Ausmith)
Can we simply send in the anchors/studs/bushing holders, or do you absolutely need the whole upper control arm? I have the Vision UCAs that are made for the EF/DA using the OEM upper control arm as a basis for the part. The UCA is stock OEM from about 2/3s of the way in from the balljoint.
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From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (Ausmith)
hi Austin,
i would not do that because i am not an H-T sponsor for now.
Was only adding input to ur product.
I think that it is a nice kit,
but i still wonder how this is supposed to resist the side load?
are the bearings pressed in ?
as i said, i think that it is a very positive move for you guys to provide installation
for this product, as most customers need to rely on a mechanic to do so ...
neway it is nice to see that you guys are working on REAL solutions
for performance ( VS cheap polyurethane solutions .. )
i would not do that because i am not an H-T sponsor for now.
Was only adding input to ur product.
I think that it is a nice kit,
but i still wonder how this is supposed to resist the side load?
are the bearings pressed in ?
as i said, i think that it is a very positive move for you guys to provide installation
for this product, as most customers need to rely on a mechanic to do so ...
neway it is nice to see that you guys are working on REAL solutions
for performance ( VS cheap polyurethane solutions .. )
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From: Jetsetter
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (JinMTVT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JinMTVT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hi Austin,
are the bearings pressed in ?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct. We machine a sleeve with the correct OD and ID. The sleeve is pressed into the anchor and then the bearings are pressed into the sleeve. The through bolt provides tension on the inner race of the bearing. There is no slop in the finished assembly.
are the bearings pressed in ?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct. We machine a sleeve with the correct OD and ID. The sleeve is pressed into the anchor and then the bearings are pressed into the sleeve. The through bolt provides tension on the inner race of the bearing. There is no slop in the finished assembly.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (Ausmith)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ausmith »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Are you guys allowed to "notch" the factory control arm to move the mounting point of the bushing? That is what we typically do on these cars.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is there enough room to do this? It looks almost like the UCA would hit the frame if you notched the bolt hole at all....
Are you guys allowed to "notch" the factory control arm to move the mounting point of the bushing? That is what we typically do on these cars.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is there enough room to do this? It looks almost like the UCA would hit the frame if you notched the bolt hole at all....
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From: Jetsetter
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (Ausmith)
Bump. I took some pictures of the final prototype. I just need to road/track test these and then they will be released.
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From: MA
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (Ausmith)
i noticed you've offset the control arm rearward to gain more caster. have you measured the bump steer with this configuration? could you make these with different offsets or even no offset?
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From: Jetsetter
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (Ausmith)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ausmith »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Kits will be available for DA, DC, EG, and EF chassis. They will allow a very minor amount of caster gain in the standard kit with an option for 0 caster change.
Enjoy some big pics.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Kits will be available for DA, DC, EG, and EF chassis. They will allow a very minor amount of caster gain in the standard kit with an option for 0 caster change.
Enjoy some big pics.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Is there enough room to do this? It looks almost like the UCA would hit the frame if you notched the bolt hole at all.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Can you answer this?
Is there enough room to do this? It looks almost like the UCA would hit the frame if you notched the bolt hole at all.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Can you answer this?
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From: Jetsetter
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can you answer this? </TD></TR></TABLE>
It works on an EF. The notch goes back and up a little. Haven't tried it on a DC/EG chassis since there are a lot of camber arm options available.
</TD></TR></TABLE>It works on an EF. The notch goes back and up a little. Haven't tried it on a DC/EG chassis since there are a lot of camber arm options available.
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From: Right Here, MI, world
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (.RJ)
Looks good, i like having more things to adjust.....
I do have a question though. Don't bearings wear more with side loads.... wouldn't that desing put a major load on the bearings in a bad way? Also, why do you have a bearing there, couldn't you just put a solid piece of some metal?
Feel free to tell me i know nothing cuz when it comes to this i'm just talking out loud.
I do have a question though. Don't bearings wear more with side loads.... wouldn't that desing put a major load on the bearings in a bad way? Also, why do you have a bearing there, couldn't you just put a solid piece of some metal?
Feel free to tell me i know nothing
cuz when it comes to this i'm just talking out loud.
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From: Central Florida, USA
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (coneheadsracing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by coneheadsracing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also, why do you have a bearing there, couldn't you just put a solid piece of some metal?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good question but what I've found (the hard way) is that you need movement. If it's simply a metal sleave, when you tighten every down you end up with all metal to metal, and not allowing the arms move up or down. The reason now this is because I had my rear upper control arms done this way (metal sleave with offset hole) and when I tighten everything down, I had zero suspension movement.
Also, why do you have a bearing there, couldn't you just put a solid piece of some metal?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good question but what I've found (the hard way) is that you need movement. If it's simply a metal sleave, when you tighten every down you end up with all metal to metal, and not allowing the arms move up or down. The reason now this is because I had my rear upper control arms done this way (metal sleave with offset hole) and when I tighten everything down, I had zero suspension movement.
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From: I am Tyson
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (Ausmith)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ausmith »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think we'll be looking at less than $200 for a set with the customer having to send their stock arms in for the operation. Turn-around should be 24-48 hours with express shipping available.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what necessitates having to send the whole arm in? seems like if anything the bearing sleeve/assembly just needs to be pressed in the bushing housing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what necessitates having to send the whole arm in? seems like if anything the bearing sleeve/assembly just needs to be pressed in the bushing housing.
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From: Jetsetter
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (Tyson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what necessitates having to send the whole arm in? seems like if anything the bearing sleeve/assembly just needs to be pressed in the bushing housing. </TD></TR></TABLE>
What worries me about having people press the pieces in themselves is that the sleeve is pretty thin and if you don't line the press tool up correctly you can quickly damage the sleeve and the bearing.
What worries me about having people press the pieces in themselves is that the sleeve is pretty thin and if you don't line the press tool up correctly you can quickly damage the sleeve and the bearing.
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From: Jetsetter
Re: Front Upper Control Arm Bushing/Bearing Project Update (coneheadsracing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by coneheadsracing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks good, i like having more things to adjust.....
I do have a question though. Don't bearings wear more with side loads.... wouldn't that desing put a major load on the bearings in a bad way? Also, why do you have a bearing there, couldn't you just put a solid piece of some metal?
Feel free to tell me i know nothing cuz when it comes to this i'm just talking out loud.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes there will be some side loading on the bearing. Keep in mind that there are two bearings per side to distribute the load. The bearings we spec have a Dynamic Load capacity of 1,030 lbs. - they handle radial loads and a small amount of misalignment quite well... well at least on paper they do. Like I said I want to road and track test them before release.
If you put in a solid piece of metal the suspension would bind and not move up and down freely - that is why we use a linear ball bearing.... so the suspension can move up and down freely and the angular compliance is minimized which keeps the geometry where it was designed to be.
I do anticipate a small increase in bump steer, however if you look at a Mugen hard rubber bushing in this application there is so little rubber material that the deflection, or compliance, is very small.
I do have a question though. Don't bearings wear more with side loads.... wouldn't that desing put a major load on the bearings in a bad way? Also, why do you have a bearing there, couldn't you just put a solid piece of some metal?
Feel free to tell me i know nothing
cuz when it comes to this i'm just talking out loud.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes there will be some side loading on the bearing. Keep in mind that there are two bearings per side to distribute the load. The bearings we spec have a Dynamic Load capacity of 1,030 lbs. - they handle radial loads and a small amount of misalignment quite well... well at least on paper they do. Like I said I want to road and track test them before release.
If you put in a solid piece of metal the suspension would bind and not move up and down freely - that is why we use a linear ball bearing.... so the suspension can move up and down freely and the angular compliance is minimized which keeps the geometry where it was designed to be.
I do anticipate a small increase in bump steer, however if you look at a Mugen hard rubber bushing in this application there is so little rubber material that the deflection, or compliance, is very small.