car: 1996 Prelude VTEC ~115,000 miles

problem: car got stuck in 3rd gear with shifter in neutral. none of the other gears would engage. it had also started poppping out of 5th gear before this happened

we checked all the shifting assemblys and everything looked normal. so we proceeded to remove the tranny. having an old accord tranny to compare to, the first thing we noticed was this piece not turning properly on the H22 tranny. (accord tranny pictured)


when we opened the housing there wasnt a drop of tranny fluid (i havent changed it or added any since i got the car like 2 years ago. im an idiot i know) im hoping that wasnt the reason for this mess and we couldve just added fluid to avoid removing the tranny.

for the most part, the transmission internals appeared flawless. no busted gears or anything. here's a few pics.








correct me if im wrong (im a tranny n00b) but im assuming this is how it works: the red shaft actuates 1st and 2nd, the green works 3rd and 4th, and the blue works 5th and reverse?



the main problem we noticed just from toying with it was that the ring on the 3rd and 4th gear shaft (green) wasnt sliding up onto the gears like the other two. heres a better pic.



its just kinda grinded in there likely due to the lack of fluid. it doesnt move like the others. is it a safe assumption that this is the main problem since the car was stuck in 3rd gear? and are the smaller rings with teeth the synchos which likely need to be replaced? my next move will be to take it to a reputable (if there is such thing) transmission shop my uncle has dealt with in the past and explain/show the problem to him and have him disassemble it and order/replace the necessary parts. I just wanted as many opinions as possible from the online honda guru's before i spend money.

Ps: is there any site online to order honda transmission internals from at decent price?

 

57 views and not one reply? where are all the tranny d00dz?

 

Sorry, I can't give you advice. Here's a good site to get oem parts from. Prices don't really get better than this.

http://www.hondaautomotivepart...cgry5=

Good luck.

 

Yea, sorry I cant help either. What you pointed too looks like one of hte syncros...I could be wrong.

Give your post some time, one of the other guys on here just took hsi tranny apart and put in a new FD, a Quafe, and put in some new bearings etc. You should have some more replies tonight or tomm.

 

lol, you have post this stuff in the integra and/or civic forum

this **** is technical,

yeah our honda synchros cant take too much abuse, they dont even like thick tranny fluid. looks and sounds to me like your synchros gave out, however i cant ever imagine them going without any noise. if it didnt make noise i would continue to disassemble it, you have to remove the 2 retaining plates at the base of each shaft and then lay it out on a table and mark verything with a sharpie, that is how i learned.

no need for a trans shop

 

ohh btw, pull the shafts with the selectors, it'll makes things easier

 

if all else fails you can buy a new tranny

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fish stick &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if all else fails you can buy a new tranny</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is the dumbest most mundane advice I've ever heard in my life....

 

I have taken out and worked with taking apart a prelude tranny before. It was an M2b4. It sounds to me like your syncros have had it. But I couldnt say for sure without messing with it in person.

http://www.gearspeed.com
is a great company and provides new carbon coated syncros. I am gonna upgrade to some when I get the cash.

Did you also check to make sure your pressure plate is not broken?
I would also take a look at the release fork and throwout bearing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fish stick &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if all else fails you can buy a new tranny</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea really, not everyone can just go out and buy a new tranny whenever theirs takes a dump.

 

Before going to a tranny shop, you can do the following yourself.

Measure blocker ring gap of every synchro, you'll have to do this with the components pulled off the shaft because you can't accurately get the feeler gauge in their when the synchro collar is 100% engaged. Specs and procedure are in Helm's.

3rd and 5th are in the same shift direction, so re-check the interlock and detent, because popping out of gear and staying in gear are often caused by that.

If a shift fork isn't fully engaging, it'll pop out of gear. Small silver teeth are speed gear clutch teeth. Small brass teeth are synchro ring teeth.

 

Oh yeah, when you put it back together replace all seals, gaskets and o-rings, use new drain plug, because SOMETHING caused it to be low on fluid, not just long over-use.

I'll wager that the shift fork to collar clearance is completely beyond specs, particularly on the 3/4 fork. I think overall that low lubrication caused premature wear due to metal-on-metal contact. If you see heat spots on the components, that's what it's from. It's fixable, but a refill on tranny fluid won't cut it at this point. Give us some measurements and we'll work from there.

BTW, good job with the pics and description, if people did this with their technical problems more often, they'd get some better answers.


Modified by VTECnKEN at 5:19 AM 6/19/2006

 

Where did you come from? Your first 2 posts already your someone's hero lol. Welcome mate.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94Vtecluder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where did you come from? Your first 2 posts already your someone's hero lol. Welcome mate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

HAHA, yeah the mystery man up there has some good advice. It may seem complicated at first but IMO its worth it to take it apart and learn something. Everything you need should be in the Helms manual. The parts wont be cheap so you might as well save on the labor.

 

Ha ha ha, my posts from four years ago are all gone now for whatever reason but my account name still exists.

 

First of all, your red and blue are backwards.. Blue is 1-2nd gear, Red is 5th/reverse...

Basically, if you ran the transmission out of fluid (you have a leak, duh), your prettymuch stuck with getting another one, or replacing EVERY bearing/seal/syncro in that current one. It would actually be cheaper to grab another transmission..

 

cheaper to get a new tranny than rebuild huh? very highly doubt that

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cheaper to get a new tranny than rebuild huh? very highly doubt that</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have all the internals of a SH tranny sitting here that I'm selling for 350$.. Everything will swap out except the Countershaft/FD and Diff.. One could take the entire mainshaft, entire countershaft gears/bearing and use all the seals.

Now, go price all new bearings, seals, gears and syncros and tell me how much it will come up too..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have all the internals of a SH tranny sitting here that I'm selling for 350$.. Everything will swap out except the Countershaft/FD and Diff.. One could take the entire mainshaft, entire countershaft gears/bearing and use all the seals.

Now, go price all new bearings, seals, gears and syncros and tell me how much it will come up too..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Or you could just be selling your stuff. Regardless I'd question your advice. The tranny looks pretty healthy to me. No heat spots etc. Why does he have to replace EVERYTHING as you say?

 

there's no questioning Corey Honda318dx in this forum, hah. he's pretty much always right...and like i said, you can always buy a new tranny. an H22 tranny can be had for 400 dollars, H23A tranny for less, and F22 tranny for dirt cheap. If you want to order the internals you still probably wouldnt know what you were doing, seeing as how you apparently have not yet looked at the helms. Plus, dealer markup on the parts are ridiculous.

Buying a new tranny will almost guarantee that it will be fresh, and not running MTF for such a long period of time will probably fubar the internals. I had the same problem of not being able to get in gear. I popped open the tranny and it looked fine, but it didnt operate fine. So if you don't really know what's up, i'd suggest saving yourself the headache.

I bought a f22 trans for $150 practically new, and it was one of the better decisions i have made for my car.

I don't see what's so dumb and mundane about that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94Vtecluder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Or you could just be selling your stuff. Regardless I'd question your advice. The tranny looks pretty healthy to me. No heat spots etc. Why does he have to replace EVERYTHING as you say?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm questioning what you mean... I've done my share of tranny builds and seen plenty of fried ones. IF THE TRANSMISSION WAS RUN WITHOUT FLUID WITHIN A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, ITS FUBAR. Heat spots or not. It is stuck in 3rd because that is the bearing that has siezed up. Do you not think all the others are close to follow suit?

He is better off throwing everything away and starting over.

Has anyone priced a complete honda rebuild kit with all new syncros/seals/selectors/bearings yet? Go Ahead, I dare you.

 

so where can i find an H22 tranny for ~$600?

 

m2b4- $800...negotiate with him
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1617689

m2a4- $500
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1613757

Courtesy- Search function

 

Ive never rebuilt a manual, only autos and from my experience, if ure rebuildin it urself (ie savin on labor) its always cheaper to rebuild.