I talked with Ground Control today, and they mentioned that they would not run higher than 550 lbs before a re-valve. Then I talked with diablo and they guys I spoke to said that he had briefly run 700 lbs with stock-valved yellows. I have also heard of a number of people running 600 lbs (either front or back) on stock yellows. So here's my question...if I want to run spring rates of 4-500F and 5-600 rear (and work my way stiffer from there as needed), should I start out with revalved shocks? It's an extra $4-500 for the revalves which won't break the bank, but I'd like to avoid it if I end up not needing them. Any advice (BTW, I called Koni but I couldn't figure out their stupid menu system . I don't have patience for stuff like that).

*edit* Oh yea, and would there be any harm in ordering the stock-valved shocks at first, and sending them back to Koni for a revalve if they don't work out?


[Modified by ITR#231, 4:26 PM 4/16/2002]

 

you also need to account for downtime when you get your shocks revalved, if thats your only race set. ive heard it taken up to 2 months, but there are other places that can do it as well.

anyone know how much a rebuild/revalve costs?

the stiffest off the shelf springs ive seen with numbers is neuspeed race springs. something like 575/450, i was contemplating reversing them front/back to get the better track performance, but i realized id be better off getting ground controls with custom spring rates. then at least i am confident in what i have, have the adjustability of ride height for camber and corner weighting. im also a bit skeptical about those neuspeed numbers anyway, and they are progressively wound i think.


[Modified by Tyson, 11:38 PM 4/16/2002]

 

When I talked with Lee at Koni about a year ago, he recommended running no higher than 500-600lbs with off the shelf konis. I went with Konis that were shortened and revalved up front and revalved in the rear for my CRX. I'm using 500F,700R rates. If you are going to get some revalved, try and find some used ones and then send them to Koni to be revalved. It will be much cheaper that way.

 

I have been hearing the 500-600 range from a few people, and I'm wondering if the 600 number is really true. I would like to start out with 500F/600R and see how I like it, but I don't want to run 600 in the rear if the shock can't properly control it. Would setting it at a stiffer setting help? Has anyone run a rate this high on a track car with off-the-shelf Konis? I want to order ASAP, and I don't want to run rates that are lower than I could have run simply because I couldn't find a good answer. If I can get away with 500F/600R on stock-valved konis, it would allow me to track down a set of shortened/re-valved Konis and a set of 700's for the rear for the future.

 

Mine are on a 5th gen prelude and the Koni rep recommended no more than 450 without revalving/shortening. That is pretty much the limit on my car, the shocks are barely able to dampen the springs.

 

I would suggest the re-valving route...I had 550 rate springs in the rear of my CRX with off the shelf Koni's and they were on the edge of controling them. I ended up dropping the spring rates in the rear for now.

Here is the other item to keep in mind...If you get the off the shelf Koni's and are running at the top of their limit, you would need to run them at nearly full stiff to just control the spring...this would leave you with no additional adjustment in the rear for fine tunning the handling of the car.

 

Can someone explain how having a spring that is too stiff for the shock is going to hurt the life/preformance of the shock?

Its obviously alot more than just ride height.

 

Tri-point charges $95 to revalve and $60 to shorten if I remember correctly.. It usually takes them 2 weeks to revalve the dampers depending on how busy they are..

I bought the Koni threaded suspension kit for my 99 civic and Tri-point dynoed the dampers before I picked them up.. On the football graph the front rebound force peaks at 424 pounds and the rear at 322 pounds...

They told me that 600lbs/in front springs is pushing the limits of the damper and I might max out the rebound setting and still get a floaty feel.. So far I borrowed some 400F and 300R springs to try out..

Charleston


[Modified by CivicFerio, 7:58 PM 7/31/2002]

 

ill try to answer this with a little physical understanding. im not a shock expert, but it makes sense in my head at least. ok, your example below of putting a 200lb spring and a 800lb spring on the same shock will mean that the change in distance is less for the 800 lbs spring for the same amount of force is true. the difference is the speed of travel. the shocks function is to limit the speed of travel. so, there will be more pressure in a shorter amount of time on the shock valve with the greater spring rate. so a shock takes away the kinetic energy of the spring movement. this kinetic energy has to go somewhere, and turns into heat primarily. too much heat and things get out of tolerance and acting the way they werent designed to with possible permanent effects. the oil also has certain heat range before its viscosity changes permantently. hope this helps.

 

If you've got the money do it up front. If for no other reason than it saves you from having to take the things off again later, resetting the crossweights and the alignment...blech.

 

My Konis are pretty much shot on 500# and 400# springs. Truechoice quoted me $550 for the rebuild and revalve, but they said that the cost may vary. Downtime was estimated 3 weeks (back in May).

 

Once again, I am just giving my two cents worth of info:
My current road race setup on my 95 EX coupe is off-the shelf koni yellows (single rebound adjustable with fronts shorened one inch) and 700 lb eibach coilovers in the front and 950 lb eibach coilovers in the rear.
Stock sway bar in front and little bitty 14 mm stock 4dr sway bar in rear. Handling does not seem to be a problem. Granted I just go ahead and adjust front and rears to full hard and go with it, as my theory suggests that there is not going to be a whole lot of movement in the suspension anyway with these spring rates.

FYI, though, I attempted to compress a well-renowned racer's rear super-trick inverted koni's (while off the car) intended for use on his ITS Prelude and could not compress them by hand PERIOD. If I had the dough, I would go with this same ravalve just for adjustability. Go figure.

Lyon
H4 13
However, I would love to have him run the car and get his opinion on this setup.

 

damn i just ordered 500f/400r ground controls for my konis. am I gonna ruin my shocks? and what does a ruined shock feel like?

 

see thread below for more discussion on this subject.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=190396

 

bouncy and uncontrolled.

 

Wow, my April topic back from the dead. Just as an update (since the thread came back) I ordered a 450F/500R combo on stock konis. When I get everything running (if that ever happens, at this rate) I'll get them revalved and swap the 500s to the front and replace the rears with 6-700 depending on how it has been feeling.