I did not bother to get a copy of the dyno because I was so dissappointed with the initial run. The car JDM ITR, with ctr pistons, jun 3 cam, cam gears, springs and retainers and 5zigen header, rsr b pipe and exhaust. tuned with crome. Car only managed to get 169whp!!!! Two hours in the dyno! He degreed the cams at 110 for both intake and exhaust which are the specs given by jun. This was about 3.5 notches retard in the jun camgears. The car knocked that we had to retard timing in the dist to 7 degress. It did'nt work there so we adjusted the cam gears advancing both intake and exhaust at a time. We could'nt surpass 169whp but the car did not get any weaker. The tuner blamed cams and told me he could have gotten better results with crower 402s. He told me to sell my jun cams and get crower from him!!! Blood sucking a-hole!! The car was with him for three weeks and I got this miserable result.

That same tuner who said he did not like the jun cams tuned my friends jun 3 which got 185whp, same set-up as mine.

Can anyone help explain and see what went wrong? AFR was around 12.5 to 13 while timing was at 15 degrees in the dist and 23 degrees(ecu) at wot.

The same day I pulled out my car I brought it to a different tuner which is highly regarded over here. He will port the head and work on the throttle body. He told me it was all in the tuning. I checked my compression and I got 250 on all 4 cylinders.

I will see maybe in a week.

Modified by camlob at 10:25 PM 6/13/2006


Modified by camlob at 10:28 PM 6/13/2006

 

Dunno...tuning IS key though.

good luck

 

the thing that really sticks out to me is the CTR pistons. the domes on them are so large blocking the flamefront. i see more cars making poor results with them than i see making positive gains.

i would start by swapping pistons or milling the domes down. you obviously know the cams have made power before on other setups.

 

Wow thats wack

 

i cant tell you exactly what the problem is but ive had good results from my JUN cams. my first build was a 1.8L, GSR stroke, ITR head unported, ITR IM, ITR TB, 11.3:1 CR, JDM DC header untuned on pump gas made 195/130.
last time i dynoed my old setup it made 220+/150 with only cam gear tuning it was a 2L, 13+CR on a ported head, ITR IM, ITR TB, JDM DC header.
ive had my JUN cams for almost 6 years now.

 

what fuel r u using? just wondering...

 

We have 96 ron here. But my friends engine also uses the same gas. What baffled me and my former tuner was that the car did not respond to the movements in the cam gears once we hit 169whp. Hmmmm.....

 

ouch..setup "should" be good for 200+ with a good tune

 

whoa..thats quite low

who was your former tuner man?

 

i think it starts with the letter "M"

 

Made 205whp and 140tq with my jun3's on 1.8l

 

I think everyone agrees that the motor will make allot more power, there is obviously something wrong here and I'd bet anything that it's not to do with the flame travel. And obviously it's not the cams, the Jun 3 is quite possible the most proven camshaft profile out there...they always produce numbers. I would try a different tuner and see what you come up with. Do you know what the duty cycle was on the injectors? What kind of dyno is this?

 

I asked him about the injectors and he said it was ok so I did'nt bother getting the nos. I paid him and took it to another tuner which has produced 200whp b16s on the same dynojet. We only have one dynojet here. The guy knows his stuff. The former tuner even had the gall to charge me an arm for his work! How can he say put crower's and he knows it will churn the nos! I would have been satisfied actually if we hit 190whp but we fell far short.

So the new tuner is doing a port job which will include a 3 angle valve job, bigger throttle body(65mm I think) and all the necessary work to harness the parts. I definitely agree with you that despite ctr's not being that great, it should have at least put 190whp which a friend put out with the exact parts, tuner and dyno!

Man, you got to trust your builder and my old one just does'nt make the cut.

 

i dyno'd my car..

stock motor

i/h/e chipped p28 i put down 164 whp and 120 tq..

found out my freaking valves were leaking (#2 CYL)

 

hmmm that pretty low for 96oct fuel...

check with different tuner thou...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by an2ny888 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think it starts with the letter "M" </TD></TR></TABLE>

damn..thanks Anthony

its good for you camlob to bring the car to your "new" tuner..their the one's producing the big numbers now.

 

that doesn't seem right i would try a new tuner!

 

thats what he did

 

Hmm this is a wierd story, out here in cali street cars (1.8 GSR and LSvtec) make over 200whp. Items on these motors were basic and very very simple. EVEN TUNED WITH OLDSCHOOL FIELDS VTEC CONTROLLER! Head was bonestock, just with blox specB cams,retainers,valvesprings, blox I.M. BDL 68mm TB, Bottom end was even more basic, using just Jspec ITR standard bore, with a SMSP header on 91 octane made 205whp at Prostreet. Your set up should be 200WHP easy! Good luck!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM KING &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmm this is a wierd story, out here in cali street cars (1.8 GSR and LSvtec) make over 200whp. Items on these motors were basic and very very simple. EVEN TUNED WITH OLDSCHOOL FIELDS VTEC CONTROLLER! Head was bonestock, just with blox specB cams,retainers,valvesprings, blox I.M. BDL 68mm TB, Bottom end was even more basic, using just Jspec ITR standard bore, with a SMSP header on 91 octane made 205whp at Prostreet. Your set up should be 200WHP easy! Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you missed my follow up thread on this.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1672992

I just put in last week my custom header and b-pipe. Have'nt gone to the dyno yet but at the onset it feels much stronger. My old 5zigen header just had primaries that were too short. Its hot and humid over here so I think my nos are in-line with recent threads I've been reading where tuning has been done in extremely hot weather.

 

Dumb question but are you 100% sure the cams you have really are Jun's?
I almost got ripped by someone selling "Jun 3" cams...
Do you know the IAT's of the runs? Those can make a big difference too, not sure about 30 HP though...
Id have the new tuner tune the existing setup before putting more time/money into it. There may be an underlying problem that no-ones discovered yet..Good luck though!

 

um, what kind of dyno is it? mustang, dynapack, dynojet?

What was TOTAL TIMING ? 20-30?
POST A GRAPH

until i see all angles i have no opinion, if your running 20 degrees of timing then i can see thats where your power loss is.

If your on a mustang dyno they read low compared to others dyno.

If your car is at 11:1 a/f then that would explain alot.

basically, post more info

 

Pls check my follow up thread I posted earlier. The AFR's are there. As mentioned in the thread, we were able to bring up the whp to 186 and torque to 131. Which I think is acceptable due to the header and the heat while tuning. I will dyno the new custom header soon. With regards to timing, it was at 16 degrees at the distributor and around 24-25 at wot in the ecu. I would like to see whp gains though with less timing(if possible). It should be a good measure on how good and efficient the engine is...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by camlob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Man, you got to trust your builder and my old one just does'nt make the cut. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Once you pick your builder or tuner, you have to let him do what he knows works for him. So you have to be more careful with the builder than with the parts you're buying. If you've picked a good builder, just let him get the parts and make decisions.

IMHO.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecKiDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">um, what kind of dyno is it? mustang, dynapack, dynojet?</TD></TR></TABLE>
He's in Manila. They have a Dynojet.