I have been going to the track a lot lately and have had MANY questions, mostly for the seasoned ITR drivers at the auto-x. I have heard a great deal about when the tegs are pushed to there limit at high speeds under harsh braking, the rear end really tends to slide out very easily. Well this happened to me while I was just driving on the highway, I was doing about 100, when I had to brake hard, and the rear end just started to come out and the car did a complete 360. Luckily there was no damage done and Im safe, but I do have 2 flat spots on my tires. Anyway granted Im not driving an ITR I have been hearing that this is an issue that arises with ITRs as well. I was told that the probelm is realized in high speed track situations even more commonly, so the realt time ITR's had custom fabricated bump steers. I really don't know what these are, but I was just wondering if any of you guys could helpe me better understand the physics of my car and how to prevent this from happening again. I don't plan on doing these tpye things on the "street" seeing as I am not a street racer, I was just crusing on the highway at a "comfortable" pace. Thanks, Jason.


[Modified by JasonNagra, 3:44 PM 4/16/2002]

 

Yeah except you don't even need to use the brakes. Sometimes a little lifting of the throttle is all it takes to get the car rotating.

 

What I noticed is that if the car isn't straight when you brake at it tends rotate the rear end a little bit, found this out at a rather high speed.
Austin

 

Man, you need to take a driving school..

As do us all.... oh, and SLOW DOWN!

 

Has anyone else experienced what I have?

 

bald back tires can contribute to this problem, especially when turning and breaking the front tires loose when shifting into second gear, lotsa fun -rob

 

Don't hold back, Steve. Tell us what you think.

 

I'm with Chris on this. Almost any car can be made to hang the tail out if you brake while turning. If you attend a high performance driving school, they will teach you to control and use this behavior. It's not something that you should play with on the street, but rather at a road course or autocross.

Glad you were not hurt.

 

I was racing a Mustang around some curves about a eyar ago and we were doing about 110 in to a carousel (sp?) type turn; this was before I had done track driving with NASA, or CGI and my instinct was to brake because I was worried I wouldn't make the turn.

Back end flew out on me but I luckily corrected and the Mustang behind me didn't run in to me either.

In the end I was lucky. Learned my lesson real quick about high speed driving on public streets.

 

Nice save!! Alot harder in an FF car though(for inexperienced drivers). I think the majority of ITRs that get wrecked are from throttle off or braking induced oversteer. The big rear sway bar will bite a novice if he/she isnt expecting it, but its a joy for anyone with an ounce of driving skills.

 

when you braked were you in a straigt line?
the only time i ever felt the rear get that light on me was at roebling road coming dwon the straight at over 120 and braking hard. even then it wasn;t too hard to correct (althogh it startled the crap out of me at the time )

-jeff

 

Does that mean I'm going to get spoken to at expo ??

Craig - who is going to throw the wing in the trunk to take up to expo for ***** and giggles

 

You ran out of talent, not out of car.

Warren

 

LMAO

 

Yeah I too have been dumb in my ITR. When I was sixteen, I decided to take a corner at 105, and now that I think about it, if I had just slightly braked before the turn and carefully applied throttle, I would have made it. But I didnt know how to control lift throttle oversteer. I spun out and went over a curb and damaged my wheel and hit in my rear quarter panel. I was young and dumb, I can admit that.

After that I didnt get my car back for 8 months, and when I did get it back, I was so afraid of the dreaded oversteer. However, I gradually taught myself how to use it. Now it's my best friend and makes curvy roads even more fun to take. It gives the driver as if he/she has control over his or her car, and that's what this car is all about. It is hugely satisfying to slip the tail and bring it back in, looking and feeling like a pro. I'm not suggesting going out and drifting like mad and making yourself a hazzard on the road, but I dont think oversteer is a problem on this car, rather an aid that makes it the best handling FF car in NA at least.

Hitting the gas when it feels like your losing control is the hardest thing to do as a novice, but it is something that is necessary.

 

 

Thank you everyone with the positive comments, and I think I understand what had happened. I realize I am a very novice driver, and I will be the first to admit I cannot control over steer. I was not speeding on a "road" just to clear this up, it was a highway, probably the reason I didn't hit anything. In terms of safety, everyone hits 100 in there car even while just dinking around, but I really will be spending a lot more time in the future learning the handling capabilities along with the handling characteristics before I try to go fast, AND turn.

 

George to answer your question I have only been auto-x about three times within the past two months, which is a lot for me. Just pylons in a parking lot with a clock. Okay maybe its a little more organzied than that. Anywho, I have not made any changes to my alignment, I recently got one done before I had put my spoon's on which was about 2 months ago. Its not that I felt the rear get light, its just that I think I braked and turned, inducing over steer, and then the rear end slowly gave out, I felt it, but could not do anything about it. Driving school here I come

 

Hey, that's exactly what I was thinking! Jason! What the hell are you doing 100mph on a freeway for!


[Modified by kf_Type-R, 1:17 AM 4/21/2002]

 

hahaha, you people are harsh...

but i must say, it takes quite a bit to spin out in a freakin FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CAR!!! geez... I always recommend new or bad drivers to get a FWD car cuz its almost idiot proof as far as taking turns and ****... with that I applaud those of you who have inadvertantly made your FWD car spin out of control. when i go **** around and make my car spin out, I need to be on dirt or rain or I gotta bust an E-Brake... so do share your wiked drift/wreckless techniqes with me.

oh yeah... i hit and indicated 140mph on an empty freeway 4 lanes wide... it was fun! went to take a turn and the rear felt like it lifted... however i did not spin out, nor did i have any problems and if i did i know damn well how to pull out of a spin (comes with lots of ****** around and watchin initial d )

Just so I dont sound like a total ***... sound like your brakes are uneven. toss em for some nice brembos or something...


[Modified by csufweed, 9:27 AM 4/21/2002]

 

TOTALLY agree...I've own my R for 3 and 1/2 years and have driven it to its limits and NEVER had the back come around on me...its an FF for pete sakes...you would have to be really doing something stuping to get it to do that....


driving lessons man!!....Skip Barber 4 j00!


[Modified by MiraiZ, 10:15 PM 4/21/2002]

 

Braking on the diagonal! Braking in a straight line!


[Modified by vtec2nr, 1:01 PM 4/21/2002]

 

Thanks Gerorge. Well Actually I am running the Fast brakes front ITR kit, and I have just the regular teg setup in the rear. I geuss I should switch out to the fast brakes ITR rear and also make sure both compounds of the pads themselves are the same too? Thanks, Jason.