my question is where should my crossover be around with a c5 block slightly built? currently it seems to be crossing over at like 7500 ish (i know, seems really high) but its professionally tuned with hondata s200 at king motorsports. i can rev to like ~8700 so that leaves just a very small powerband. just wondering what you guys think?!!?

im currently driving this setup

99 civic si

b18c5 longblock (head milled .005)
-toda springs/retainers
-toda spec b cams
-toda cam gears
-toda header
-toda clutch/flywheel
-custom intake
-RSR exmag exhaust
-ported TB
-quaife LSD
-fidanza axles (300 hp rated)
-Spoon Headgasket
-Spoon Plug wires

Hondata s200

Suspension
- Zeal B6 full coilovers
- custom rear strut bar
- Mugen sway bar reinforced
- spoon rear tie bar

put down 175.1/113.7 to the wheels on mustang dyno

oes this number seems a little bit low for what it should be able to put down, or is it just me?

let me know what you guys think
thanks

 

my brothers setup

-Stock 1996 JDM ITR Block (50k)
-Unported / Undecked Stock 96 ITR Head (50K)
-OEM ITR Intake Manifold and TB
-Stock 96 Spec ITR Transmission (50K)

-Walbro 255 pump
-RC 440cc injectors
-Fuel Pressure Regulator (48psi)
-VP Gas

- Supertech Valve Springs and Retainers
- Toda Spec B Cams set to 0-0 with HKS Cam Gears
- Old Style DTR 1.8lt Header
- 2 Magnaflow 2.5in’ inline muffles back to back to a dump right before gas tank
- 3in AEM Cold Air

Hondata S200 tuned by Blacktrax Performance

190.9 whp and 131.9tq on a Dynapack3000

i believe his VTEC crossover is set to 7000rpm. I believe he revs to 8800rpm.

 

so he used VP race gas on a stock ITR motor and only managed 190 on a dynopak?? race gas seems a bit overkill for that stock setup no??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by acydphryck &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so he used VP race gas on a stock ITR motor and only managed 190 on a dynopak?? race gas seems a bit overkill for that stock setup no?? </TD></TR></TABLE>

just a little overkill and those 440cc injectors are overkill as well, and for the op your xover is so high probably because thats where it fit best and made the charts the smoothest like downeys.


Modified by EM1_00MRBuilt at 5:54 PM 6/7/2006

 

yeah my chart is pretty smooth, but i still question the fact that there would be no more benefit (i.e. more power 1-1500 rpm sooner) with the xover at like 6kish. seeing as though it would be retuned. i feel that im not getting max performance from this cam only being in vtec above 7600 rpm and revving to like 8800 max. its not like im a 10k revver.

i dont doubt anyones knowledge on this subject, its just kind of hard to understand that in my case (which would end up being alot of peoples cases (with c5+ spec b)) that i would only need to be in vtec for like 1-1200 rpm.... if anyone has any more knowledge on this subject please share!

thanks

 

also running RC 370cc injectors

 

im sure 1-1500 sooner wouldnt be a problem just is going to be sluggish on the dyno charts i myself am not a tuner and if they recomended to be that high there is definately a reason, but i understand your frustration about being in vtec for so little of time i would have it retuned for a low xover, sorry if that didnt help much good luck

 

Toda's are known to have high vtec x-over points, the large primaries help carry the non-vtec power later into the powerband.

 

mines at 6k i wish i had a dyno sheet scanned.

2.0 itr with toda b's 11:1 comp 220whp 158 tq

 

nice numbers, i think that my motor is capable over 200 whp on the setup i have, so im kinda frusterated. the mustang dyno shows that i got 175/113 which should put out like 195-201 whp and 127-130ish ft/lbs. i wish i could get it retuned on a dynapack or similar so i wouldnt have to guesstimate the actual hp reading by using the 12-15% rule.

oh well, im still interested to what everyone has to say, keep it coming!

 

the reason im hesitant i getting it retuned is that i dont wanna waste money becuase King Motorsports is very reputable, and i have no reason to question what they did in this case, although i still do question it

 

I think all dyno's read differently. Why dont you just dyno it somewhere else? See if they can pull some more power out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brewcity &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

put down 175.1/113.7 to the wheels on mustang dyno

oes this number seems a little bit low for what it should be able to put down, or is it just me?

let me know what you guys think
thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

anybody miss that part??

 

lowering it is not gonna give you more peak power if thats what you're expecting. Take the advice of the tuner and leave it where its at.

 

175hp on a mustang dyno is a little ove 200whp on a Dynojet. Sounds like your car is making the power it should.

You will be slower if you lower your VTEC. Just because it doesn't make the noise, doesn't mean its not making power. If the graph is smooth, you wont make any more power than the way it is now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ivan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lowering it is not gonna give you more peak power if thats what you're expecting. Take the advice of the tuner and leave it where its at.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not looking for greater peak power, just having the power come sooner. i dotn understand, i know these cams make power lower on the vtec lobe. i have talked to people that has theirs set at like 5600-6000. my setup doesnt seem to differ much between theirs either. i know every setup is different, but still dotn quite see the need for it so high. oh well beats me.

im not looking for a definite answer, just some opinions. keep them coming!

 

i had it set initially about 6800-7200 rpms on my b16a with Toda Bs, but for the track and the dyno i made more tq at 6000-7500 rpms which benefited my combo much more IMO, by engaging vtec at 5800 rpms, and advancing the intake to move the peak power earlier in rpms. I was using a chipped P28 and just a vafc. Came out with 173/118 with an ITR manifold and ITR TB. However, i hate to say that you'll make more tq with a B16 manifold, even on the 1.8L... worked for me.

I made 7 more peak hp by advancing the exhaust only 1 degree, but there was 2 ft/lbs LESS tq, so i chose to sacrifice the 7 hp for 2 lb/fts more torque across the powerband.

 

forgot to mention that i came out with the intake advanced 4 degrees, and exhaust was left at 0 on the gear.

 

hmm interesting. keep em coming, the more the better!

 

I don't know much about tunning, and i am wondering, if u change ur cam gear timming, will it also change where u should have ur vtec cross over?

 

lowering ur vtec point would be stupid if its been tuned and 7k is where they set it.
toda b's aren't really great high end cams, they are more geared towards midrange. because of this they have pretty large primaries. this means that on ur motor vtec does not need to come in till later.

 

rev til timing belt shreds; set it there

 

^^^^ good plan i like it....lol

 

i think he spent too much $$$ on jdm parts instead of performance parts
it cost him on the dyno
...except the quaife