In the JDM market, do they have the bumper supports in the front and rear of civics? I have heard not, but wasn't sure if it would be legal to remove them as a weight savings for SCCA Street Mod class. The key to the question is LEGAL, not doable, thanks.

Dan Hill
27 SM
92 Civic

 

Well, I think you could always *replace* them with a lighter material, but removing is questionable--even though the JDM cars might not have had them. You could always post this question to the SM yahoo group, but remember that certain people's opinions do not hold any weight with the SEB, even though he (they) will have you believe otherwise.

This is just one example of what makes the rules in that class a clusterf*ck (and one of the reasons that I got out of it).

 

If the rules do not specifically allow it, you cannot do it. Hence the vice of solo2 rules.

I would say that removing bumper supports is definately illegal, without my rulebook in front of me. But then again, who is going to know (not condoning cheating here) to protest this? Another vice of solo2 rules....

Ryan

 

If the rules do not specifically allow it, you cannot do it.

Right, but SM is getting into the idea of integrating "Continental" cars. So, who knows at this point.

 

You're kidding, no?

Well if not, that opens up a whole new can of worms. And i bet its an ugly one. Lots of bickering and fighting and protesting and finger pointing all probably over mods that dont add up to jack or chit on the autoX course with these 3000+ lb high HP monsters...

RJ

 

Well the car must still be street legal. So removing them (bumper stuff) would toss the car out of "street legal".

 

Not quite. The car has to be registered to drive on the street. This also falls into the catalytic convertor question - you can get it registered to run on the street, and then pull the cat off. Its not street legal, but you have met the letter of the rule. I would hate to see SM turn into a big mess because of silly stuff like this.

 

Hey dan.

IMO, the only way to clear this up is to establish proof of whether there is a difference between JDM bumpers and U.S. spec bumpers. Does anyone know for sure?

BTW, SM has gone far beyond the "street legal" phase... I'm not getting into the intent of the SM ruleset, just trying to discuss this specific question.

**Edit: (still trying to conclude whether foreign spec vehicles are allowed in the class...)**

Foreign spec cars ARE allowed into the class. This, in turn, allows a kind of variation to the "update/backdate" rule. So, if JDM Hondas come without supports then we can legally remove them under SM rules.

Yes, I know about "if it's not specifically allowed...etc.". However, in many cases, other "allowances" make room for changes not found explicitly stated elsewhere in the rules. This happens all the time in SP. For instance, I am not specifically allowed to remove airbags from my car, BUT I am allowed to swap steering wheels, thus eliminating an air bag. We're not specifically allowed to remove bumper supports, but we are allowed to build our cars to match foreign-spec versions of the same cars. Clear as mud?


[Modified by fsp31, 4:29 PM 4/15/2002]

 

But, if for instance, the foreign/jdm market car came with a sunroof that the USDM car did not (for example). Is this acceptable under the update/backdate allowances?

RJ

 

damn, im trying to get into autox, but i hate all these rules, i dont even care about competing necessarily, i just want to drive the courses and learn to drive properly!
i hate how the rules limit what you can do to YOUR car. If there's a non competition class LET ME KNOW!
-steve

 

Steve, it seems like you're placing the hassle, rules conflicts, and (supposed) competition on yourself. If you dont care about competing, then do what you said, just drive....

I dont mean this in a sarcastic or ******** manner. If you just want to play, then do what you want with the car, whatever that may be. If a seemingly simple mod throws you into a Mod class, so what, do it and drive and have fun. Yeah, you'll get killed in PAX, may not compete nationally or at ProSolo events but so what? This is what local events are all about. Run club events, scca, etc and work on driving, take an evolution school, hang out and have fun. I did this for a while, and in the end i had a great street car - but poorly setup for DSP. When i decided i was ready to get more serious about autoX, i sold the car. You dont *have* to limit what you want to do with the car just because the rulebook is written a certain way. Its a sport and people will be competitive, and people will spend money. If you dont have a rulebook and a structure for it, then it would be a mess. The same goes for the classing. You cant make everyone happy, but you have to make a comprimise somewhere and call it a day. The catch-all run-what-ya-brung class will be Street Mod.

Just my $.02

Ryan

 

When were the rules revised to allow non-US market cars? Last time I checked, ALL of the Solo rules were based on USDM vehicles only (with few exceptions like replica/kits like the common Lotus 7 kits).

What you need to check is the bodykit allowance. If it allows bumper changes, then go ahead and remove it. If it specifies fascia only, then the bumper itself must stay.

 

I thought a non-usdm car would just be placed in its appropriate mod class... hence the lotus classing...

Ryan

 

From the 2000 National Solo Rules:

16.1 Modified Production Cars and GT Cars (D and E Mod)
To be eligible to compete as a modified production sports car or sedan, the car must meet the requirements of section 13 (first paragraph), be specifically listed in Appendix A, or be otherwise recognized by the SEB. The Caterham 7, [some other 7 replicas], [some other cars] are eligible to compete as modified production vehicles.

13 Stock Category
[paraphrased] must be series produced with normal road touring equiptment and be capable of being licensed for street use. Sold and delivered through manufacturer retail. If not listed in the Stock category classes must have been produced in quantities of 1,000 in a 12 month period.

From the 2001 Rules:
18.C Street Mod, Vehicle Eligibility
C. VEHICLE ELIGIBILITY
1. STREET MOD (SM): All sedans/coupes (models which were originally equipped with a minimum of four seats, four factory seat belts, not sports car based).
a. Sample Vehicles:
b. Sample Excluded Vehicles:
2. STREET MOD 2 (SM2):
a. All two seater cars, not excluded below.
b. All SM eligible sedans/coupes excluded from SM for failure to meet weight and/or displacement limits.
c. Excluded Vehicles:
* Lotus (all)
* Two seater cars not eligible for Street Prepared Category

[end of rules, begin of my comments]
So, based on the 2000/2001 rules, any car produced anywhere can be used in Street Mod. There is no restriction on origin, as long as it is not specifically excluded and meets the other requirements (weight, displacement, etc).

Street Mod would be the only class in SCCA Solo that has such an open rule. D and E mod, Preprared, Street Prepared, Street Touring, Stock all require the car to be USDM or specifically listed by the SEB (as is the case for Caterham 7 and a few others).
There are two ways to interpret why the rule is as it is:
1. Oversight on the part of the SEB, will be corrected when brought to their attention
2. Purposefully written - since so much update/backdate, parts swapping,etc goes on, why not allow JDM, Euro, et cars.