ok, when it comes to tuning cars i am completely aware of the options and i can smell bullshit a mile away. for example, if you have a 600 horsepower b series engine you more than likely have some sort of stand alone, in spite of the fact that all of the marketing gimmicks from people that sell piggy back systems claim to be able to do the same thing.

in other words, i understand what type of control a good ecu must be able to provide in order to deliver a quality tune.

now i have been blowing up google searching for the sportbike equivalent and most of what i've found seems really hokey, such as systems that are only based off of throttle position and they in no way account for mass airflow etc.

when people have boosted sport bikes what are the options for a good tune? and i should mention that i am sure there are plenty of bikes out there with plenty of horsepower that are tuned shitty and i would appreciate if you guys would not tell me how to do it ghetto or cheap. i am more concerned with the ideal situation.

thanks in advance

 

tune with a hope and prayer normally...

 

Motec.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EngineNoO9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tune with a hope and prayer normally...</TD></TR></TABLE>

well that goes without saying

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RebornGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Motec.</TD></TR></TABLE>

do they make ecus for bikes specifically or is this no different than what they offer for cars and you need to wire it up accordingly?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.E.G. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do they make ecus for bikes specifically or is this no different than what they offer for cars and you need to wire it up accordingly?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Never personally installed/used one but that's what all the best superbike teams run.

You looking to build an engine?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RebornGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Never personally installed/used one but that's what all the best superbike teams run.

You looking to build an engine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes a sportbike engine but not in a sportbike. essentially it will be used in a kit car of sorts. the plan is to aquire a cbr1000rr engine. i have had little luck in finding the whole engine and harness and that sort of thing, so it may turn our that i have to buy the whole bike and then part out what i dont end up using. i would love to give more details on my plans but building this car is part of a documentary that my neighbor and i are working on. he's a film maker/ photographer (professionally, not just an ameteur) the basic concept is that i will have a certain timeline to construct the vehicle and have it running. he doesnt feel that i can do it in the timeline so we have placed a decent sized wager on it and the loser has to donate the money to the winners charity of choice.

the whole thing will be filmed in HD and disc overy channel HD is dying for HD docs so we are trying to get them to fund the project in part, and to pick it up upon completion. everything is on hold until we get the go ahead which sucks because i am anxious to get started but that would void the challenge if i put my hands on any of it ahead of time. however it gives me the opportunity get all my ducks in a row prior to starting it.

i have to say that i am pretty ******* proud of myself with my rear differential design. i cant spill the beans on it, but i can say that i wont be using quaifes 3000 chain driven differential for motorcycle engine powered cars which is great because this project has a budget as per the agreement of the challenge. the rear diff was a major concern and now that i have figured that out i am trying to nip the engine management issue

my plan for the engine is to leave it completley stock and make an adapter for that attaches to the factory collector to convert it to work with a turbo charger. if i had a bigger budget, or a longer timeline i would consider having a proper turbo manifold designed for it, but i have to stick with what i am personally capable of doing as well as stay withing budget.

i know that the motors are pretty strong and some fairly knowledgeable motorcycle shops in my area have assured me that the engines are fairly reliable when boosted up to 300ish whp, but i am paranoid about running boost on high compression engines, and the only way i would have peace of mind about it would be to not cheap out on the tuning.

i dont even consider using the factory ecu as an option since this engine uses two sets of injectors and i will be constructing an entirely different plenum for it, and i dont want the headache of tricking the ecu into thinking the other injectors are still there, or whatever the case may be.

for the record, i am not a tuner, but i do have every intention of setting everything up, including the wiring harness (custom if necessary) prior to taking to have it dyno tuned.

thanks for your help and advice guys.

 

Any reason why it has to be a 1000RR engine?

You may want to send some emails out to guys in the drag racing business, as they are about the only ones boosting Motorcycle engines.

I just said Motec off the top of my head because that's what all the top road racing superbike teams use. I have no idea if it carries over to boosted/drag bikes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RebornGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any reason why it has to be a 1000RR engine?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i just like that engine for a number of reasons. the semi closed deck block design gives me a boner

i am somewhat obligated to go with a honda engine (for reasons that wont be appearent until i can speak freely about the documentary) and i cant think of a better honda sportbike engine. if you can, then please let me know. and im not saying that sarcastically, i am serious.

what engine would you suggest if i didnt have to go with a 1000rr engine, and why?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.E.G. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
what engine would you suggest if i didnt have to go with a 1000rr engine, and why?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Busa, zx12 or zx14.

Because they make more power and have much more support for the type of thing you are looking to do.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.E.G. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
what engine would you suggest if i didnt have to go with a 1000rr engine, and why?</TD></TR></TABLE>

busa. proven engine, many parts to build them up with, internals and what not.

 

well as i mentioned i am locked into using a honda engine of some variety. i looked into building the 1000RR engine and i didnt seem to have much trouble finding parts for it.

when it was all said and done, i am only looking to get 250-300 horsepower out of it and i think that the 1000rr will not give me much trouble in that regard.

are there any negative things i should be aware of about this engine?

i am by no means a sportbike expert but this engine has got to be the best that honda has made, that i have ever seen.

 

If you want that much power from a motorcycle engine a busa is your best bet as they make turbo kits for them. I am not aware of any off the shelf turbo kits for the 1000rr.

 

look here for all the available suff for the busa, never seen one like it for the 1000rr.

http://www.hayabusaparts.com/catalog/index.php

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rednas &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want that much power from a motorcycle engine a busa is your best bet as they make turbo kits for them. I am not aware of any off the shelf turbo kits for the 1000rr.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the turbo kit is not a problem. i will get a properly ized turbo kit and adapt the factory header to work with the turbo. it will be a pretty standard setup with an air to air intercooler, external wastegate, blowoff valve, etc.

keep in mind i have put my hands on this engien and its exhaust manifold yet, so if there is some reason that it wont work, i will have a turbo manifold constructed for it. i dont really need an off the shelf kit since the engine wont be on a bike. fabbing the intercooler piping and all of that will be a piece of cake for my application. if i was doing this to the actual bike there is no way i would attempt it with a custom kit that i am building myself.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rednas &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">look here for all the available suff for the busa, never seen one like it for the 1000rr.

http://www.hayabusaparts.com/catalog/index.php</TD></TR></TABLE>

hey thanks, thats good info

 

this is the kind of thing i wish to avoid:

http://www.hayabusaparts.com/c...id=29

they offer an additional injector and an FMU as means of compensating for the boost. while im sure that works ok for thier setup i want my setup to be properly tuned.

i can see myself spending about 5 freaking days trying to build a wiring harness

 

here is another link that might be of use to you.

http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/...=20.0

 

they use uberdata

j/k


dont the gp teams use magneti marelli?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rednas &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">here is another link that might be of use to you.

http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/...=20.0</TD></TR></TABLE>

good info
... but im still not gonna use a busa motor

 

I know the power commander is used on many turbo busa kits. Not sure how good it is once the hp reaches 300hp +

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chitownrida &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they use uberdata

</TD></TR></TABLE>

hahaha. its funny you should mention that because i am considering using a non vtec honda ecu with hondata and just building a custom harness. i will have to see some wiring diagrams first since the 1000rr may have some sensor that the car ecu wouldnt know what to do with or something stupid like that. when it all comes down to it i need something that can communicate to the ecu throttle position, mass air flow, blah blah blah. ideally there is a plug and play option that i am unaware of that will work with the factory wiring harness, but the worst case scenario is i will have to use x ecu or standalone and make a custom harness or adapter from one harness to a non matching ecu, and the worst worst worst case scenario is that i will get the ecu thing ironed out but x sensor will be a 5 volt signal and the ecu needs to see a 12 volt siganl and i will have to both rig up the wiring AND rig up some censors. that will suck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EngineNoO9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know the power commander is used on many turbo busa kits. Not sure how good it is once the hp reaches 300hp +</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah thats my concern. im weary of piggy backs in general but this one seems to be a throttle position based device. (correct me if im wrong) i would really only feel comfortable running a boosted engine with a device that is aware that the boost is there, ie a something that can account for airflow. im sure you can make do with these devices and i have read that a lot of people do just that, but i would really rather have uber good tuning.

 

I don't believe stock motors have a maf sensor like cars do. someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's why you need a reflash when you get an exhaust and what not to account for the change. they do account for atmospheric conditions like air temp and altitude but that's it. plus unlike car piggybacks this can control timing as well unlike your blue box and vafc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EngineNoO9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't believe stock motors have a maf sensor like cars do. someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's why you need a reflash when you get an exhaust and what not to account for the change. they do account for atmospheric conditions like air temp and altitude but that's it. plus unlike car piggybacks this can control timing as well unlike your blue box and vafc.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ahhhh, i see. when i construct the plenum for the intake manifold i will probably add a maf to the equation.

if i was just doing some bolt ons i cant see a problem with going with a power commander, but boost makes me weary of blowing this thing up.

thanks for the info

 

If you're building a bike any stand alone system will work. lots of teams for formula sae that uses 600cc motors and some teams have turbos - lots of them use motec. megasquirt is always an option too.