I just installed a Hondata IM gasket and Mugen thermostat last weekend and am getting ready to replace the coolant, but have a couple questions before i start. I have a little over 3 litres of Type 2 Honda (premixed stuff) coolant left over from the last flush (about 15k ago) and was thinking of adding all of that and then just filling the rest with distilled water. I noticed the jug of Type 2 coolant says not to mix water with it, so i thought i'd make sure it's OK to add more water. The car isn't daily driven and sits in a heated garage all winter but i do live in a cold climate (Canada) and don't want to dilute the antifreeze TOO much. So i guess the questions in point form are:

1. How much coolant is left after draining the rad and changing the thermostat as well?

2. Should i be OK to add the 3 litres or so of Type 2 and fill the rest with distilled water?





Modified by CanadianR at 2:50 AM 3/27/2006

 

there's gotta be someone online that can help me out........?

 

49 views and no one can give me any kind of answer? Maybe today will be lucky....

 

I think 3 liters should be just enough to fill it without having to add any water.

Last time I did it I added 3 and a bit. If I'm remebering correctly.

If I were you I'd stop being such a tight *** and go and buy an extra liter.

 

A quick and dirty answer ... no, it won't be OK.

Antifreeze (or coolant as its known) serves to not only keep the system from freezing, but also keeps the system from "boiling over", and adding water to your pre-mix will dilute the antifreeze to the point that it no longer serves both of those functions as it would w/o being diluted (with water).

To me it absolutely makes no sense sense to try and save those few dollars (US or Canadian) by not getting some fresh "antifreeze" mix.

Give the rest away if you have to!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A quick and dirty answer ... no, it won't be OK.

Antifreeze (or coolant as its known) serves to not only keep the system from freezing, but also keeps the system from "boiling over", and adding water to your pre-mix will dilute the antifreeze to the point that it no longer serves both of those functions as it would w/o being diluted (with water).

To me it absolutely makes no sense sense to try and save those few dollars (US or Canadian) by not getting some fresh "antifreeze" mix.

Give the rest away if you have to! </TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly zyg, there IS a reason why they call it Antifreeze...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A quick and dirty answer ... no, it won't be OK.

Antifreeze (or coolant as its known) serves to not only keep the system from freezing, but also keeps the system from "boiling over", and adding water to your pre-mix will dilute the antifreeze to the point that it no longer serves both of those functions as it would w/o being diluted (with water).

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, i'm aware what coolant does. I also know that several people in this forum use mostly water as they live in warm climates and want the better cooling that water provides. I'm told that water works as a coolant better than antifreeze does and the reason for using any antifreeze at all is to prevent freezing and to prevent corrosion. The coolant is rated for -36 degrees Celsius if not diluted; surely you could add some distilled water and not have to worry about freezing slightly below zero. I'm just wondering how much could be added before i should worry about freeze-up if i should get caught in slightly below freezing conditions at an event in the spring or fall.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

To me it absolutely makes no sense sense to try and save those few dollars (US or Canadian) by not getting some fresh "antifreeze" mix.

Give the rest away if you have to! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not sure where you guys got that i'm trying to save money here; i never said anything about that. This question has nothing to do with saving money. I'm not some kid who buys toys, installs them, and then neglects to do proper maintenance on the car .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CanadianR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not sure where you guys got that i'm trying to save money here; i never said anything about that. This question has nothing to do with saving money. I'm not some kid who buys toys, installs them, and then neglects to do proper maintenance on the car .</TD></TR></TABLE>

Granted.

So, what was the question?

 

It is really hard to say how much. I wouldn't go against what Honda recommends. Here (in FL) it wouldn't matter so much. But up north I wouldn't.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Granted.

So, what was the question? </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's in my first post, there's two questions. What i'm wanting to know is, approximately how much coolant i'd have in the system after draining the rad and changing the thermostat (basically draining lower rad hose). The car holds 4.7 litres of coolant when completely empty and i have about 3.3 litres of Type 2 coolant. If there's still another litre in the block and other various hoses then i'd have no worries adding a little bit of distilled water. but if there's pretty much nothing before i add, then i'm wondering if i'll be diluting the coolant too much with the water.

Again, the car will unlikely see any freezing temperatures and is mostly used as a weekend toy and for driving events; but being in Canada there is a possibility of seeing near freezing temperatures in early spring or late fall.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CanadianR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's in my first post, there's two questions. What i'm wanting to know is, approximately how much coolant i'd have in the system after draining the rad and changing the thermostat (basically draining lower rad hose). The car holds 4.7 litres of coolant when completely empty and i have about 3.3 litres of Type 2 coolant. If there's still another litre in the block and other various hoses then i'd have no worries adding a little bit of distilled water. but if there's pretty much nothing before i add, then i'm wondering if i'll be diluting the coolant too much with the water.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Short answer, yes!

By diluting a "redimix" you will be below spec in that arena.
How much out of spec would be relatively easy to determine from the above facts.
Will it make a difference or cause you problems, ... it depends.
Do you expect to stop in traffic? For extended periods of time?
Are you planning on running some type of "water wetter" as well?

Any more questions?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Short answer, yes!

By diluting a "redimix" you will be below spec in that arena.
How much out of spec would be relatively easy to determine from the above facts.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe i'm just dense in this area, but how can i determine how out of spec i will be if i have no idea how much coolant is left in the car before adding the 3.3 litres? I know it's somewhere between zero and 1.5 litres or so, but i won't really know until everything is filled, at which point it'll be too late to change.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do you expect to stop in traffic? For extended periods of time?
Are you planning on running some type of "water wetter" as well?

Any more questions? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. No. I had thought about adding water wetter.

Am i incorrect in believing that water works better than the coolant at cooling the system? Are you saying if i were to run mostly distilled water (say 80 water/20% non-mixed coolant) that i would have problems with overheating if i had to sit at traffic lights for any length of time? Or am i somewhat wrong and in order to use water you will need some kind of water wetter to keep the boiling point higher?

I'm getting more confused

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CanadianR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe i'm just dense in this area, but how can i determine how out of spec i will be if i have no idea how much coolant is left in the car before adding the 3.3 litres? </TD></TR></TABLE>

In trying to answer this question, I would suggest looking to the Helms manual for the Integra (of which mine was stolen with my ITR), but the manual usually gives capacity values when replaced (completely empty), and just when emptied and refilled (as for the radiator or transmission).

I personally find this question similar to one that would ask the HP increase/decrease when adjusting engine timing from stock (wrt the matter of "how much").

... and after considerable thought (or lack thereof), I'd say that the admixture you're suggesting will raise the boiling point of your coolant by 2.6 degrees Centigrade (just kidding but not necessarily unlikely).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Antifreeze ... also keeps the system from "boiling over"</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not necessarily true!

A system with just water will run cooler, it transfers the heat better.

Also, the pressure in your cooling system will keep the water from boiling under most conditions, assuming you have a functioning thermostat (which also helps build pressure against the water pump).

Race cars run water because they're not allowed to run antifreeze. Besides that, it's a better coolant than antifreeze mix.

 

That's where i got the 4.7 litre capacity from (of course i only have the Integra manual, i've not gotten the itr supplement yet). The Helms doesn't list any capacities other than complete refill. I think we may be confusing each others meaning of my question. I just thought someone might know offhand how much coolant would still be residing on the cooling system after i drained the rad and changed the thermostat. I'm not looking to actually calculate how out of spec it would be, i was just saying that one couldn't calculate that without first knowing how much water would be added to dilute the coolant.

Since no one has answered the question of how much coolant remains i think i'll just totally refill the system with the Type 2 coolant and save myself the headache. I added the approximately 3 litres of coolant and haven't even gotten the rad totally full so i'm gonna need at least 0.6 litres (capacity of the reservoir) and up to about 1.5 litres, so i'll just pick up more coolant.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not necessarily true!

A system with just water will run cooler, it transfers the heat better.

Also, the pressure in your cooling system will keep the water from boiling under most conditions, assuming you have a functioning thermostat (which also helps build pressure against the water pump).

Race cars run water because they're not allowed to run antifreeze. Besides that, it's a better coolant than antifreeze mix.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

This was my impession as well. I didn't want to run strictly water as i need to have some coolant to prevent corrosion in the system and just in case i get caught in slightly below freezing temps. I was just wondering approximately how much premixed coolant i would need to prevent freezing at slightly below ) Celsius temps and to prevent corrosion. Obviously the answer to the question isn't as simple as i had originally thought.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CanadianR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Obviously the answer to the question isn't as simple as i had originally thought.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes it is.

If you're already mixed about 50/50 ethylene glycol to water, and you don't want to go past 70% water, then you have about 1.5 L ethylene glycol, which matches up with 3.5 L water (2 more liters than you have already mixed).

30% water gets you a freezing point of 0 degrees F.

Just buy some damn coolant!

 

Hey, that's good stuff. The Type 2 must be mixed 50/50 as it's rated as freezing point -36C. Well, since i added 3 litres already, there's 1.5 litres of ethylene glycol in there currently, which will give me a little over 30% (at least 1.5 litres out of 4.7 litres) and a freezing point of -18C, which is WAY lower than the car will be seeing. At least i know i can add the distilled water and get away with it. But i'll just buy some coolant as i don't want to just put water in the reservoir and i used all the coolant in the rad already .

Thanks Chris

 

I'm just glad you installed the Hondata IM gasket finally

Keep in touch Shane

Awesome graph showing the coolant mix Chris F. Saved for reference.

 

I would have just said yes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RagingAngel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm just glad you installed the Hondata IM gasket finally

Keep in touch Shane

Awesome graph showing the coolant mix Chris F. Saved for reference. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, it only took me about 3 years to get enough enthusiasm to install the damn thing. Man was that IM brace a pain in the *** to get off; i think that took me about 3 hours - one stubborn bolt i just couldn't break.
Pat, i haven't spoken with you in forever, i'll get in touch.

Thanks again Chris